Help identifying pictures from Norway
 

Hi everyone!

Have in my collection several pictures to be from Norway but I am not 100% sure.
Help needed to identify pictures.

Will start with 3 set of pictures ..

Thanks!

John Fredrik

Re: Help identifying pictures from Norway
 

Another one :

Re: Help identifying pictures from Norway
 

#3 Ju 88 A of I/KG 30 "4D+Rx" but version A-1/5 or 4 hard to say. Remindes me of similar force landing in either Finland or Sweden.

Re: Help identifying pictures from Norway
 

Thanks for the interesting Bf109E shots. Looks like a 1.Staffel aircraft "white 12" which has what seems to be a cartoon style pilot's head drawn on the fuselage under the cockpit. 1./JG 77 had white numbers outlined in black but I'm not sure it is the correct unit in this case.
Göran

Re: Help identifying pictures from Norway
 

Thanks!
Guess this one is a tuff one to identify then.
It`s too bad we cant`t see the rest of the code.

Although I think this is from the Northern area in Europe somewhere, the trees tell us that.;)

John Fredrik

Re: Help identifying pictures from Norway
 

Hi Göran!
Yes the pictures are indeed interesting and it would be fun to identify this aircraft.
If this was the 1./JG 77 they had a period in Norway?
Do you know when and were?
Maybe the loss list`s could tell us something.
The house and surroundings could also be to help if we could pin point the area..

Thanks !

John Fredrik

Re: Help identifying pictures from Norway
 

Hi John,
Thanks to the air scoop it's a Bf 109 E!!!
Or Jgr. Drontheim. Let's try this one:
Bf 109E-7, 4.(Eins.)/JFS 3, WNr. 5163, Pilot Hammesfahr, Friedrich "Fritz". Uffz., Weisse 12, Fla/ Halsanaustan, Halsa, 30km ESE of Kristiansund.
Infortunately I haven't the rate of damage ... If it's more than 20% it's not that one.
But it's the only Weisse 12 I have on 2/12/1941.
Hope it's the good one. If not Forget what I wrote.
Cheers, Franck.
PS: Since the pilot's name is given ... I have doubts whatever.

Re: Help identifying pictures from Norway
 

Hello,
I have the Hamesfahr machine, Werknummer 5163 as 80% damaged. The description of his crash landing in in my book, Die Jäger der Graf Zeppelin.

Francis

Re: Help identifying pictures from Norway
 

Done! Thank you Francis. Another one?

Re: Help identifying pictures from Norway
 

I am thrilled!
Thanks alot.This picture serie has been a pain in the. . . for some time:-).
Will look in my pile of pictures and see what would be the next challenge.

John Fredrik

Re: Help identifying pictures from Norway
 

Hi John,
I don't know if you understood my last post; I don't know if I understood yours but with 80% damage, given by Francis, there is few chance if nil my proposition to be the good one.
And, unfortunately I have no other solution.

Franck.

Re: Help identifying pictures from Norway
 

I misunderstood then..that means I still have this pain:-)
Hehe.. Still a mystery this one then.
Thanks anyway!

Cheers

John Fredrik

Re: Help identifying pictures from Norway
 

John,

You're from Trondheim, I have another loss in Trondheim in April.
It's an E-3 which is better. But damage rate is high; 70%.
But In April: is it that snowy? You can check for the house being there. Be patient; ask the eldest, ask the associations in Norway.
The answer - if it's possible to get it - may come tomorrow or next year.

I'm not the best in these columns. Many already published and you can be sure that even without immediate comments they are checking in their data. Can take times. Of course doesn't mean you'll get an answer.

At least, check your source. Where did you get the picture? Who gave you? Where did he get it?... etc... Doesn't mean I'm asking you to explain me this.

Good luck and Regards, Franck.

Re: Help identifying pictures from Norway
 

Hi.

Well - not an easy one the Bf 109.

The location is definitely somewhere in Norway - but exactly where is not that easy to say. Could be middle Norway (around Trondheim), but also in the south (area around Mandal for example).

Also - this could be almost every variant of an E-series - we have well known photographs of E-7´s with the early version canopy - Horst Carganico even got this canopy version mounted on one of his Bf 109F´s for better visibility.

Units then... JG 77, Jagdgruppe Drontheim, JG 5 are all possible

Timeframe likely winter 1941 or winter 1942.

With regards to the amount of damage - to me it seems like this one has been on it´s back, the tail being damaged in a so-called ´Überschlag´ - a very common thing with the Bf 109 by landing and takeoff.

I have (unfortunately maybe) close to 1000 loss records for Bf 109´s in units under Luftflotte 5, so it is a bit of a needle in a haystack search - but it can be done by narrowing in on periods, locations and loss descriptions.

Request - has anyone got the NVM for the following loss:

http://www.aviationhistory.no/ref_db...?lossid=122594

Regards,
Andreas B

Re: Help identifying pictures from Norway
 

I have a strong feeling the pictures are of Hammesfahr's Bf 109 which crashed at Halsa.
Added a picture of the aircraft shortly after landing. The tail seems to be damaged and there is also snow on the ground.

http://ktsorens.tihlde.org/flyvrak/halsa.html

regards Kjell

Re: Help identifying pictures from Norway
 

Hi Andreas and Kjell!

Thanks for feedback regarding identifying this 109.

Kjell have you been at this chrash site and do you remember if the surroundings match with my pictures?
Not unlikely that the plane was partly dismantled before transport..

Cheers
John Fredrik

Re: Help identifying pictures from Norway
 

Hi Kjell and John,

If the picture posted by Kjell is effectively Hammerfahr's white 12 then:
It's described as an E-7 but watch the E-3 early canopy style which was well described by Andreas!!!
That White 12 given by Kjell seems to match, in terms of damages, with the one given by John and commented by Andreas.
So Two solutions:
- Or it's the same ( and I was quite good talking about this loss!!!!) and the damage rate given by Francis is wrong ... Or the the guy who wrote it was drunk.
- Or the damage rate given by Francis is good, then the pictures posted by John and Kjell - I've no doubt it's the same plane - have nothing to do with Hammerfahr's loss.

Last, OK it's the good one... then after the belly landing at Halsanaustan the plane has been dismantled and put on a truck. Pictures - John ones - have been taken: Where? Christiansen? Then the house in background still exists??

Cheers, Franck.

Re: Help identifying pictures from Norway
 

Hei John Fredrik
I visited the crash site in 2004. There is a farm just above the field where the aircraft landed, and the houses in the background of your pictures could very well be this farm. I did not take any photos showing the farm, so I will check it next time I visit this area again.

Re: Help identifying pictures from Norway
 

Have studied some maps on the internett of the place and yes I could agree that the building on my pictures can be on of the houses on the farm next to the crash site.
I have never been there but how are the surroundings, mountains like on my pictures?
Air photo doesn`t tell me much about that

Thanks again all of you writing in this thread!

John Fredrik

Re: Help identifying pictures from Norway
 

Here are a few more:

Re: Help identifying pictures from Norway
 

4./JG 77, "Weisse 12". Lt. Georg Schirmböck, Trondheim-Vaernes, 23 Avril 1940.
Franck.

Re: Help identifying pictures from Norway
 

Thank you Sir!!:)

John Fredrik

Re: Help identifying pictures from Norway
 

Welcome

Re: Help identifying pictures from Norway
 

Refering to the Ju 52 picture I can read the following code :

?N + BK

The H-111 I can read : 2 E(B) + ??



John Fredrik

Re: Help identifying pictures from Norway
 

Another one.
Does anybody know the type of aircraft and unit?

John Fredrik

Re: Help identifying pictures from Norway
 

Hi,

Arado 96, could be any of the fighter units in Norway really. I./JG 77, JG 5 (most likely I. or IV. Gruppe) or Jagdgruppe Drontheim which also operated some of these afaik

They used these for familiarization flights and do on.

Regards,
Andreas