FW 190 and Bf 109 losses on 31.7.1944 in Lithuania
 

On 31.07.1944 four Yak-1B of 812 IAP were engaged in aerial combat with four Bf109 and two FW190 near Kaunas, Lithuania. One of the FW190 (it was a Bf109 according to other sources, though) was deliberately rammed by Yak-1 flown by mladshiy leutenant Semyon Belkin. Belkin successfully bailed out and observed FW190 went down and exploded.

Is there any recorded Luftwaffe losses on this date in this area?

Regards,
Maksim

Re: FW 190 and Bf 109 losses on 31.7.1944 in Lithuania
 

Hi Maksim,

this date Uffz. Rudolf Gerasch, 10./JG 51 was killed when his Bf 109 G-6 serial 413504 was rammed by a downed enemy fighter. Place is given with area Kowno, a second Bf 109 of the 11./JG51 is missing in the same area.
For the place Kaunas I only find a Hs 129 B-2 of 12.(Pz)./SG 9 downed due to antiaircraft, Fw. Walter Lippstreu killed.

khorat
Michael Balss

Re: FW 190 and Bf 109 losses on 31.7.1944 in Lithuania
 

If the time listed is between 10:58-11:38 (German) 1./NAGr.8 and 11./JG51 were engaged in dogfights with Yak-9s to the SW of Kaunas (35345-59). I don't know what kind of fighter that NAGr.8 was flying at that time but I believe IV/JG51 had converted back to the Bf 109.

Re: FW 190 and Bf 109 losses on 31.7.1944 in Lithuania
 

IV./JG51 lost several A/C to enemy actions that day, but acc. to ww2.dk they were based too far South (Mielec) for the Kowno/Kauen/Kaunas area and only III./JG51 was near (Dubowo), but they did neither claim nor loose. On th eother hand, Khorat's info seems to say the opposite about IV. Gruppe - a death data is more reliable then teh ww2.dk stuff which sometimes does not really fit 100%.

I can throw in II./SG3, which lost a Fw190F that day as well as I./SG10 which was probably on the same base as IV./JG51.

PS: Most NAGr were flying 109G by that time.

Re: FW 190 and Bf 109 losses on 31.7.1944 in Lithuania
 

Kowno is polisch name for Kaunas

Re: FW 190 and Bf 109 losses on 31.7.1944 in Lithuania
 

On the dogfights in that area I was looking at the 01Aug44 was fixed on Uffz Erich Barz 11./JG51 who also fought on the 31Jul.

Re: FW 190 and Bf 109 losses on 31.7.1944 in Lithuania
 

Hi,

I./S.G. 10 was flying operations from Sudauen on this day, against targets in the Pilwischken area. I./S.G. 10 missions were flown at the following times:

06:10-06:50
10:15-10:55
13:10-13:45
15:10-16:00
17:00-17:55
18:15-19:05
19:30-20:30, landing at Insterburg

Cheers,
Andrew A.

Air War Publications - www.airwarpublications.com

Re: FW 190 and Bf 109 losses on 31.7.1944 in Lithuania
 

Hi,

"was deliberately rammed " - what a nice piece of Soviet propaganda.

Robert

Re: FW 190 and Bf 109 losses on 31.7.1944 in Lithuania
 

Thank you, Michael.
I think Uffz. Gerasch is currently the best candidate as the reason and location of loss match perfectly.

Nokose, it is likely not the case. The exact place is given in VVS documents as Munishkantsy. It must be a small village called Muniškiai in Lithuanian, which is located to the north of Kaunas.

Robert,
I'm afraid I can't get your point. I know my English skills are poor (may be I used some wrong words in my post?) but what do you mean "Soviet propaganda"?

Re: FW 190 and Bf 109 losses on 31.7.1944 in Lithuania
 

Strange, the place for the claim listed as Orlovka, place of loss for Belkin reported as Vendzyagola. Initially listed as shot down by 2 Ме-109, later in the operational report dated August 13, added as air ramming of Fw-190.

Re: FW 190 and Bf 109 losses on 31.7.1944 in Lithuania
 

You known very well what I mean.

Robert

Re: FW 190 and Bf 109 losses on 31.7.1944 in Lithuania
 

Connected to this should be looked at the claims by Marquardt and Barz (11./JG51) in PQ4677x at ca. 13:15. The PQ is ca. 10km N of Kauen(=Kaunas=Kowno) and ca. 7km E respectively S of Vendzyagola, which Nikita just mentioned.

So, it looks as if four Yak-1b from 812.IAP fought with minimum three 109G from 10.&11./JG51.

Uffz. Gerasch was shot down as well as M.Lt. Belkin. Wether Belkin rammed Gerasch deliberately or not is not 100% clear to me - maybe he did it after his Yak was already heavily damaged and he saw a chance to act like that. Anyway, he DID ram Gerasch acc. to German and Soviet infomration provided by Maxim1, Khorat and Nikita.

SG10 falls through the filter, as Pilwischken is further South-West near Wilkowischken. For SG3, I assume that it fought further North, in the Riga sector. That would mean "No Fockes were around".

Question to Nikita & Maksim: Was there another lost/damaged Yak by 812.IAP, as the german claim data indicates?

Re: FW 190 and Bf 109 losses on 31.7.1944 in Lithuania
 

Hi, Joerg,

No losses more for 812 IAP. But three Yaks lost in 43, 274 and 115 GIAP respectively all to fighters at 11.05-12.10, 12.20-13.16, 18.30 (M.T.) Belkin loss reported around 14.00.

Re: FW 190 and Bf 109 losses on 31.7.1944 in Lithuania
 

Nikita, thanks for additional information!
Concerning 'Munishkantsy', I have a TsAMO reference (ф. 812 иап, оп. 204132, д. 2, л. 32) which cites that name. Mikhail Bykov also listed Belkin's claim in his 'Soviet aces' book as 'Me-109 at Munishkantsy by ramming'. But Vendzyagola (Lith. Vandžiogala) is located not far away from Muniškiai, so it seems we are talking about one and the same case.

Yogybär, according to cited TsAMO reference, during the fight Belkin ran out of ammo and his Yak was damaged also. At some point he found himself chased by FW 190 and decided to ram it. He abruptly reduced the speed of his plane and then struck the chaser with a right wing.

With additional info by Nikita we can now try to solve the puzzle. Tony Wood lists on 31.07.1944 six Yak-9 claimed by II. and IV./JG 51 in Kaunas area (the claims of II./JG 54 and AGr. 31 can be ruled out):

around 10.30 (German time) or 11.30 (Moscow time) - one claim by Marquardt. It might be Yak-9 from 43 GIAP mentioned by Nikita.

around 11.30 (GT) or 12.30 (MT) - one claim by Lt. Hein. Probably, 274 GIAP.

around 13.00 (GT) or 14.00 (MT) - two claims by Marquardt and Barz. This is our case. It seems that damaged Belkin's Yak was claimed as a victory by Marquardt (at least the location of Marquardt claim is much more closer to the mentioned Vendzyagola than that of Barz). In turn, Belkin managed to ram and shoot down Bf 109 flown by Uffz. Gerasch. No other losses from Soviet side.

around 17.30 (GT) or 18.30 (MT) - two claims by Barz and Fw. Ulbrich. One known loss by 115 GIAP

Khorat mentioned another Bf 109 from 11./JG 51 as MIA that day in Kowno area. It would be very interesting to know more about it.

Re: FW 190 and Bf 109 losses on 31.7.1944 in Lithuania
 

Does the TsAMO have anything about the attacks on his Yak and the other Yaks of Belkin's groups? The times of Marquardt and Belkin's claims are 13:16 and 13:22 from an altitude of 1200 m to 1000m. A lot can happen in 7 minutes. From the written experiences of some Russian pilots and the few TsAMO reports I've come across you can follow the claims of the Luftwaffe pilots in the air. Planes don't always go straight down after being shot down. Recently I heard of an American pilot chasing a Bf 109 down that he hit but didn't see the pilot bale out. On pulling along side there was no pilot.

Re: FW 190 and Bf 109 losses on 31.7.1944 in Lithuania
 

Interesting thread: Podpolk. Popov participated in this combat:

On 31.07.44 Podpolk. Ivan Feokitstovich Popov (26 AV), CO of Yak-9-equipped 812 IAP (265 IAD, 3 IAK, 1 VA, 3rd Belorussian Front) was credited with 1 Bf.109 s/d 10km SW Kaunas.
Popov had departed with Ml.Lt. Belkin in Yak-9T (“12”) for a free-hunt in the region Kaunas-Vendzegola (see above). At 13.55hrs they strafed motor vehicles and set 2 on fire in the Yavginki region. Surveying the airfield of Munushkantsy a flight of 4 Bf.109s appeared. Popov attacked head-on and s/d 1 Bf.109, which crashed in the Bobty region (his first victory during operation “Bagration”. In a second attack at 2,000 Belkin´s Yak-9T “09” was damaged and he bailed out and landed in the Skrypno region (E of Vendzegola). Ammunition expenditure: 23 OKB, 20 BS.
By that time Popov was credited with 19 victories with 812 IAP (and 2 more with 835 IAP before) in 70 combats plus 8 more aircraft (3 Ju.87, 1 He.111, 3 Fw.190?; according other datas: 3 Ju.87s, 1 He.111, 2 “Fw.200”, 1 Ju.52) destroyed on the ground in 150 combat missions (HSU on 15.08.44).
The other german pilot lost here probably was:
Uffz. Ehrenfried Wahl:- (11./JG.51) MIA in Kowno area.

Re: FW 190 and Bf 109 losses on 31.7.1944 in Lithuania
 

Monaco, that is a nice addition!
- Just "10km SW Kaunas" is strange, maybe it says "North-West"?
To the locations:
- Can you identify Yavginki?
- Munushkantsy could be Muniskiai and
- Bobty could be Boniskiai

Re: FW 190 and Bf 109 losses on 31.7.1944 in Lithuania
 

Hello Yogybär,
I have no idea of the places and the transcription from Russian had to be "handled with care". SW means southwest. If Popov´s claim location was correct, then part of the combat had taken place southwest of Kaunas and there seems to be an old airstrip near Mauruciai (some 10km southwest of Kaunas) on the satelite picture. Belkin could have flown a little further NNE on his damaged Yak-9 to bail out over own territory, but this is maybe too much guessing.

Greets

Monaco

Re: FW 190 and Bf 109 losses on 31.7.1944 in Lithuania
 

I suggest, "Bobty" is rather Babtai, ca. 8 km N of Muniskiai.

Re: FW 190 and Bf 109 losses on 31.7.1944 in Lithuania
 

Monaco, that strip is a very good find, although today only ca. 400m are left. Anyway, I am sure that Munishkantsy = Muniškiai:
1) A strong hint: The place you mention is far out of the military order "free-hunt in the region Kaunas-Vendzegola ". Even if they wouldf have gone there, they would never ever admitted to have done it voluntarily in their report ;)
2) A kind of proof for me: Please check this site: http://www.fallingrain.com/world/LH/00/Muniskiai.html
==> Maybe it was just a small sattelite AF for Kaunas?

Yavginki is still a hard nut to crack. I guess it should be some "Jau...", as the transcription "Ya" is similar to "Yakovlev", which is german says "Jakovlev". But still, there are a lot of places with "Ja..."