Luftwaffe losses on 30 Jan 1944 Italy
 

On this date the 325th FG made claims for 38 Axis aircraft (and 6 probables). Among the aircraft were...

11 Ju52, 2 ju88, do217, fi156, hs126, 16 bf109 and 6 Mc202....

Does anyone know which LW/ANR units were encountered?

regards

Keith

Re: Luftwaffe losses on 30 Jan 1944 Italy
 

That is documented, Do217 at Vis , Fi156 near my home at Bannia by Pordenone.

Rémi

Re: Luftwaffe losses on 30 Jan 1944 Italy
 

ANR = 1° Gruppo Caccia (3 a/c lost)

LW = I./JG 53 (6 a/c lost + 2 on ground) - II./JG 53 (4 a/c lost)
Stab./JG 77 - I./JG 77 (4 a/c lost)

Also 1 Savoia Marchetti S.81 with German markings was shot down (which most probably was the "Ju 52" claimed...)

All the above has been throughly researched and published by Roberto Bassi in the second volume of his excellent "Il cielo sopra Campoformido", which narrates in two books the history of Campoformido airfield from its constitution to date.

Re: Luftwaffe losses on 30 Jan 1944 Italy
 

Dear RT,

I would very much know more about the fi 156 near Bannia. Are there any more info about it?

Re: Luftwaffe losses on 30 Jan 1944 Italy
 

There are also real Ju52 Lost , Ferdinando, a bit more on the Sm81 ??

30 1 44 5 TG2 Rivia Abschuß JU52 3233 8T+CP
30 1 44 5 TG2 Rivia Abschuß JU52 4046 8T+DP
30 1 44 5 TG2 Rivia Abschuß JU52 6650 8T+HN
30 1 44 5 TG2 Rivia Abschuß JU52/3mg10e 10148 8T+BP
30 1 44 5 TG2 Rivia Abschuß JU52/3mg7e 7268 8T+CN

Remi

Re: Luftwaffe losses on 30 Jan 1944 Italy
 

The Ju88, possibly ,
30 1 44 Wekusta 26 F Ravenna X JU88A-4 550496 5M+H

Seems to match the journey of the Sammies ost-coast Italy going north

Rémi

Re: Luftwaffe losses on 30 Jan 1944 Italy
 

Salve Pelo,

30 1 44 Verb,st,300 H Bannia b, Fiume-Veneto FJ 325 FG, FI156 1323 PR+XG 100 x Liebmann gerhard uf f dead

Remigio

A rather consistant share of those data comes from Matti Salonen, seems is out at the moment , as is very liberal with his knowledge, I posted them

Re: Luftwaffe losses on 30 Jan 1944 Italy
 

Concerning the loss also of several Ju 52s, my fault. The book reports them too.

Concerning the S.81, the only details I can add is that it was hit by P.47s which set the port wing on fire and it crashed at 12.30 hrs on a farm in Visinale di Sopra (a fraction of Pasiano - PN), killing the crew and the two unlucky inhabitants Gioacchino Turchetto and his wife Angela Berto.

Fragments of the aircraft, piloted by a German Feldwebel, with an Unterfelfwebel and an Unteroffizier on board (no names are supplied in the Italian documents of the time) crashed also on a second house, damaging and burning it, with no other human loss.

BTW, about the Ju 52s, what is "Rivia"...? Such a place do not exist. Could it be "Rivis", which is a locality SW of Udine...?

Re: Luftwaffe losses on 30 Jan 1944 Italy
 

certainly Rivis, dont aware which area was in cause when I transcript the losses, concerning the Sm81, I hv two losses the day after? one with only three casualties, nd near Aviano so always in that area probably our guys

Brischnick adolf uffz bf t
Topf albert uffz bm t
Wegener gerhard uffz f t

9.TG1 F Aviano FJ SM82 61527
12.TG1 F Aviano FJ SM82 61528


Do we hv a time for the claims of the 325.FG ??

Rémi

Re: Luftwaffe losses on 30 Jan 1944 Italy
 

The loss reported of the S.81 took place on 30 January, as there is an official Italian typewritten document of the local Carabinieri on the accident and it was written on the 31st reporting in full detail the events of the day before (quoting the date, of course...).

I have xeroxes of the original document supplied by Roberto Bassi himself.

Re: Luftwaffe losses on 30 Jan 1944 Italy
 

They are reported as S.82, the Wn seems to confirm it , oder..., very "comic " that the Wn are so close , are the codes of the plane given ??

Rémi

Re: Luftwaffe losses on 30 Jan 1944 Italy
 

Rémi, if I had it, I'd report it here, don't you think? ;)

Re: Luftwaffe losses on 30 Jan 1944 Italy
 

For sure, the doc , report it namely as a S.81 ,,??

Rémi

Re: Luftwaffe losses on 30 Jan 1944 Italy
 

FWIW, yes.

Re: Luftwaffe losses on 30 Jan 1944 Italy
 

Hi,
regarding the 31 January 1944 losses, I have in my notes:-

Lt. R.W.Dunkin (317 F.S.) - S.82
Lt. C.J.Hoffman (317 F.S.) - S.82
Lt.R.V.Been (318 F.S.) -S.82 + Me.109

These seem to match the 2 lost S.82's (with maybe a double claim on 1 of them) also Stab/JG.77 lost a Me.109 flown by a Ltn.Klinker, all in the Udine area.

cheers

Bruce Lander

Re: Luftwaffe losses on 30 Jan 1944 Italy
 

This is amazing. Thanks for all your replies. I had thought this might be massive o.verclaiming on the part of the 325th FG but it appears they probably brought down around half of the claims, which is better than the 1:3 ratio that normally occurs.

Thanks again

Keith

Re: Luftwaffe losses on 30 Jan 1944 Italy
 

So the S.81 for the 30.th is still missing ...

Rémi

Nothing about the timing ??

Re: Luftwaffe losses on 30 Jan 1944 Italy
 

Interestingly Ltn Helmuth Klinker Stab./JG77 claimed his second victory on 31/01/44, before being shot down... he must have survived because he scores further victories with JG77.

regards

Keith

Re: Luftwaffe losses on 30 Jan 1944 Italy
 

keith A
Lt. Klinker of 3./JG 77 was KIA on 44-09-28 near Bergen-Heijen (Holland)

Frans A

Re: Luftwaffe losses on 30 Jan 1944 Italy
 

Turning to another aspect (and trying to shed further light to the "mystery" s.81 shot down on 30 January), I think that it could be interesting also to examine the claims of the 325th FG.

According to the great work of Frank J. Olynyk, among the claims of Ju 52s shot down, there is one by F.O. Edsel Paulk (who already claimed one Ju at 11.45 hrs on Villaorba a/f), claiming a second Ju 52 5 miles NE of Villaorba...at 16.15 hrs...!

Considering that the timimg could simply have been transcribed wrong, there is a (tiny) possibility that this could be the S.81 shot down, considering that it was a fixed undercarriage aircraft like the Ju 52, thus easily mistaken for it, with its dark green camo and German markings...

Only a guess, of course...

Re: Luftwaffe losses on 30 Jan 1944 Italy
 

Yep. I saw that too, but Checkertail Clan by McDowell and Hess links all his victories to the same mission. I am sure that there was a mission schedule in the back of the book but I have lost it (my copy is over 20 years old) so can't be 100% certain.

regards

Keith

Re: Luftwaffe losses on 30 Jan 1944 Italy
 

RT, Thanks for the info on the fi156 in Bannia!
Concerning the sm82 in Aviano... my uncle Pier - then he was only 16 - remembered that in 1944-45 while on guard duty in the revetments around Aviano, used to play cards with his friends inside "big airplanes". I showed him photos of various planes. But he never could identify the type. He passed away just a few months ago.

Re: Luftwaffe losses on 30 Jan 1944 Italy
 

By the way, I have 1/Lt WA Rynne of 317th FS as claimant of an SM82 and Bf109 on 31/1/44 with other claims by Dunkin, Hoffman and Suehle of 317 FS.

Regards

Keith

Re: Luftwaffe losses on 30 Jan 1944 Italy
 

They didn't hv watches in the USAAF ???

Rémi