3/JG2 raf 607 pilots ids.258 sqn 5/10/40
 

Hello'
JG2 on 5/10/40 shot down around 5 hurricanes from tangmare- 607 sqn .and 258 sqn.but pilots IDS are not known.any know who they were;
they crash landed as i know.from a air fight...
Sharon

Re: 3/JG2 raf 607 pilots ids.258 sqn 5/10/40
 

238 Squadron, Chilbolton

Hurricane P3611. Shot down by Bf109s in combat over Shaftesbury and abandoned near Mere 1.55 p.m. Sergeant J. W. McLaughlin baled out badly burned - admitted to Shaftesbury Hospital. Aircraft VK*L a write off.
Site excavated by Torbay Aircraft Museum and many shattered and burnt-out components recovered.

607 Squadron, Tangmere

Hurricane P3668. Forced-landed damaged in combat with Bf109s of I./JG2 over Swanage 2.00 p.m. Flight Lieutenant W. F. Blackadder believed unhurt. Aircraft damaged but repairable.

Hurricane P3759. Forced-landed damaged following combat with Bf109s of I./JG2 over Swanage 2.00 p.m. Flight Lieutenant J. M. Bazin believed unhurt. Aircraft damaged but repairable.

Hurricane V6742. Forced-landed at Broom Farm, Fareham, damaged in combat with Bf109s of I./JG2 over Swanage 2.00 p.m. Pilot Officer D. Evans believed unhurt. Aircraft damaged but repairable.

Hurricane P3554. Shot down in combat with Bf109s of I./JG2 over Swanage and crashed at Woodhorn Farm, Aldingbourne, 2.00 p.m. Sergeant R. A. Spyer baled out unhurt. Aircraft a write-off.
Excavated by the Wealden Aviation Archaeological Group in September 1979. Intact Rolls-Royce Merlin engine recovered together with complete instrument panel and control column. Aircraft identity plate also discovered confirming identity.

Re: 3/JG2 raf 607 pilots ids.258 sqn 5/10/40
 

thanks ;
but ? in the big book battle britain then and now states they crash landed around the base?
SHARON

Re: 3/JG2 raf 607 pilots ids.258 sqn 5/10/40
 

Sharon,

Research has moved on in 42 years. This is the best information I have at present. Sorry.

Re: 3/JG2 raf 607 pilots ids.258 sqn 5/10/40
 

Hello
my mistake it stated crash landed...in the books as you said.some crash landed

sharon

Re: 3/JG2 raf 607 pilots ids.258 sqn 5/10/40
 

Peter

Sorry to be a pain, but can you just confirm if P3759 is a typo here or if P3756 is a typo in BoB T&N?

Cheers
Stig

Re: 3/JG2 raf 607 pilots ids.258 sqn 5/10/40
 

No pain at all Stig. The correct serial is P3759.

Re: 3/JG2 raf 607 pilots ids.258 sqn 5/10/40
 

Thanks Peter

Really appreciate your help (+ all the books I have!!) Nice to get this one corrected.

Cheers
Stig

Re: 3/JG2 raf 607 pilots ids.258 sqn 5/10/40
 

I'm afraid parts of this are not correct. Jim Bazin, 607 Squadron, leading squadron over Swanage. Francis Blackadder saw aircraft to the rear and alerted Bazin...no response. 607 was then badly bounced from the rear, 4 aircraft force landed 6 others damaged.
Francis Blackadder flying Hurricane P3929 commented: WFB shot down by Me109s. Jim Bazin flying Hurricane P3668, his usual aircraft, also force landed. Both pilots were uninjured.
Source: logbooks of Jim Bazin and Francis Blackadder.

Best Wishes.
Robert.

Re: 3/JG2 raf 607 pilots ids.258 sqn 5/10/40
 

Whilst three of these aircraft may well have made a forced-landing, P3554 most certainly did not. The pilot baled out leaving his aircraft to dive to destruction at Woodhorn Farm, Aldingbourne.

Somewhere I have a file of correspondence from the brother of Evans ('Wimpey' Evans, as I recall?) in which he talks about this episode. I need to get out my notes, but I also think that the late Alexander McKee saw a 607 Sqn Hurricane in a field near Fareham during October 1940 and I believe he sketched it. Possibly this was Evans' aircraft, although all of this is from memory at present.

I cannot comment on the serial number anomaly for the aircraft being flown by Bazin and Blackadder, but doubtless Peter Cornwell will be able to have some input and address the variations he has.

Re: 3/JG2 raf 607 pilots ids.258 sqn 5/10/40
 

I am more than happy to accept corrections to my notes from a reliable source as the ORB is particularly unhelpful with regard to individual serials flown. What I posted was largely extrapolated from secondary sources so subject to a degree of speculation. According to ORB notes written at the time, it was the ‘weaver’ Green 1 SULMAN who called a warning that allowed No.607 to take immediate evasive action before the attack developed. The same source also records that several aircraft were hit, four of them forced-landing (one with Cat.2 damage and three others Cat.3 write-offs), while six more returned to base with minor damage. I have been unable to resolve these details.

Analysis of Hurricane serials suggested P3759, P3668, and V6742 as all being involved and P3554 is well-established as the aircraft abandoned over Aldingbourne by SPYER. Robert’s input now offers confirmation that P3668 was in fact BAZIN and brings P3929 into the equation as BLACKADDER’s machine. However, according to my notes, P3929 went Cat.2 damaged on 17 September 1940 and was allocated to RAF Christchurch on 7 October so we still have a way to go before we get all these particular ducks in a row. It would be most helpful at this stage if Robert could post details of the Log Book entries he mentions (or a PM if preferred). It would be useful to finally nail these details.

Re: 3/JG2 raf 607 pilots ids.258 sqn 5/10/40
 

Hi Peter,
True enough muddy waters. the attack developed as I stated in my earlier post: Blackadder then Bazin, as you said it was Sulman who called out the attack but by then it was too late.

I have had another look through my notes etc. P3929 was force landed 17 September by Harry Welford at Tuesnoad Farm, Bethersden, hit in the bottom of the engine. However, Blackadder records that he flew P3929 on nine flights between 1 and 5 October, the last he force landed. He merely states: 'WFB, Bazin, Spyer, Evans all shot down by Me 109s: all pilots safe.' Blackadder, from what I know of him, was a methodical Scot. Had he entered this number once or twice I would have thought it was maybe a mistake but I would doubt he made nine mistakes in a row. The duration of his flight on this day was 55 minutes. He kept a detailed diary during the battle of France but refused to do so during the Battle of Britain because of Kings Regulations.

Jim Bazins regular aircraft was P3668 and he recorded that he flew it on 5 October. He force landed this aircraft and suffered a hefty smack on the nose from the gunsight. He flew another aircraft for the next day and a half then flew P3668 again on his second flight of 7 October. Bazin only records the number of his aircraft, flight at 1-30 and that he was operational. he never wrote comments in his logbooks until 1943/44. I have always found him a walking mystery as he never wrote much down at all and left operational flying in December 1940: he didn't return to it until 1944.

Best Wishes.
Robert.

Re: 3/JG2 raf 607 pilots ids.258 sqn 5/10/40
 

Thank you Robert. Details amended accordingly.

Re: 3/JG2 raf 607 pilots ids.258 sqn 5/10/40
 

Hello
On Mckee sketch -yes..book just read..Mysteries of the air.
sharon

Re: 3/JG2 raf 607 pilots ids.258 sqn 5/10/40
 

Hi all,
Please excuse what may be a silly question, but are there plans afoot to publish a new edition of 'The Battle of Britain then and now' that would reflect all of this new info?

Nick

Re: 3/JG2 raf 607 pilots ids.258 sqn 5/10/40
 

Unless Peter C knows something different, my last conversation with Winston Ramsey on this topic (admitedly some one or two years back!) elicited a positive "No".

Re: 3/JG2 raf 607 pilots ids.258 sqn 5/10/40
 

'A positive "No".' ? As Andy says, there are no current plans for a further edition of BoBT&N. But all additions and amendments to my loss lists will ultimately feature in Larry Hickey's forthcoming Eagles Over Europe series.

Re: 3/JG2 raf 607 pilots ids.258 sqn 5/10/40
 

...Grumble mumble... (reaches for credit card to have ready when this next indispensible work containing Peter's outstanding research is released) ...grumble mumble...