20 Crated Spitfires Found in Burma????
 

Really? I have heard half-a-dozen variations on this story usually involving P-38's buried at Clark Field in the Philippines. Could this one be true?

British farmer’s quest to find lost Spitfires in Burma
The Telegraph - 15 April 2012

"The extraordinary plans to dig up the lost squadron were revealed this weekend as David Cameron visits the country.

Now, David Cundall, 62, of Sandtoft, near Scunthorpe, has spoken about his quest to recover the Spitfires and get them airborne.

Mr Cundall has spent £130,000 of his own money, visited Burma 12 times, persuaded the country’s notoriously secretive regime to trust him, and all the time sought testimony from a dwindling band of Far East veterans in order to locate the Spitfires."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/de...-in-Burma.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...ned-to-UK.html

Re: 20 Crated Spitfires Found in Burma????
 

With today equipment it would be easy to search and find so only hope that someone will give some effort in this way. Long time ago I have read that some British airplanes are simply loaded in tunnel which was cover with ground. Transport was so expensive as well aluminum, for example cost of new manufactured aluminum was twice less then from scraped airplanes. In this way many airplanes are just drop or push in sea. Therefore- mayn options for airplane archaeologist :)

Re: 20 Crated Spitfires Found in Burma????
 

And supposedly there are hidden caches of Japanese Zeros and Bettys in caves on islands all over the South Pacific.... :rolleyes:

In fact, I seem to recall a fairly decent novel from about the mid-90s about that very thing. ;)

Re: 20 Crated Spitfires Found in Burma????
 

And in the Sun newspaper 1994 in Mother Russias caves 10 crated lancaster bombers ..I know that 5-10 harley davidsons WLA 750S that were found in a cave in russia-and thats true..ive seen them in a bike mag-
Sharon

Re: 20 Crated Spitfires Found in Burma????
 

To be fair, there does seem to be rather more behind this than some tales similar at first glance. It might be worth a look at what is being said on the Key Publishing site, by some creditable individuals.

I certainly have some doubts about the details of this story, but it does seem that there is something down there. Whether it turns out to be Spitfires is another matter, and Mk.14s yet another!

Re: 20 Crated Spitfires Found in Burma????
 

Well, it seems as the Burma discovery may be legit. :eek: :D

Mind, I dinna know the reliability of BBC.Com or Telegraph.com, so I can't make a decent analysis of the story, so we'll have to wait and see how this works out....

But I dare say that - if true - the British and Burmese governments will share a good bit of cash by putting them up for auction, eh? :wink:

See below....

Jim

From Wikipedia [Disclosure: I am an editor for Wikipedia] :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spitfire
"In 1945, the RAF buried a number of Mk.XIV Spitfires in Burma, still unassembled in their crates, in order to prevent them falling into enemy hands or being destroyed. Their exact location has never been determined but in April 2012 the UK government announced they were working with the post-junta Burmese government to locate and potentially return the total of 20 aircraft to flying status. Leeds University experts and an academic from Rangoon, using sophisticated radar techniques claimed to believe they discovered the site of the buried aircraft. In addition to the 20 aircraft thought to be at this one site, other sites with buried Spitfires are believed to exist. One such site is thought to have up to 36 Spitfires alone buried ¯and preserved."[153][154]

Footnote 153 - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17710598

Spitfires in Burma 'could be found',
13 April 2012
"British and Burmese authorities could work together to find 20 Spitfires buried in Burma at the end of the World War II, officials say."

Footnote 154 - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/de...-in-Burma.html
( http://tinyurl.com/bquuh35 )

British farmer’s quest to find lost Spitfires in Burma,
by Adam Lusher7:50AM BST 15 Apr 2012
"A Lincolnshire farmer has told how he spent 15 years trying to find a lost squadron of Spitfires that was buried in Burma at the end of the Second World War."
[article includes a photo, "Spitfire being prepared for burial in Burma" - Photo: Sean Spencer]

Re: 20 Crated Spitfires Found in Burma????
 

Dear Gods and Goddesses of flight and war....

Should this story turn out to be true, and the joint Brit-Burmese team actually find a cache of aprox 20+ Spitfires (regardless of Mark and Mod), in flying condition - after the Airframe & Engine mechanics have certified at least one, of course.

Lets have an informal poll (since I don't know how to set up a real one yet):

1. What do you think that a '43-44 vintage Spitfire in original - flying - condition would bring on the open market?

2. Assuming that you were Bill Gates (or your favorite Gazallionaire ;) ), how much would you be willing to pay for a Spitfire in flying condition. eh?:D

Jim

Re: 20 Crated Spitfires Found in Burma????
 

I believe most allied warbirds (of the single seat fighter variety) seem to go in the 1.5-2million+ range airworthy, depending on the type...from the few public prices i have seen here and there. Not sure if level of originality and other details may affect price.

So I would imagine that would be the going rate (returned to airworthy), even if there are 20+. I am sure there is a large list of people waiting to purchase there would be little to no deflation in the market.

I am more curious what the 'still in the crate' market price might be. 1Mil +?

I hope a few of these a set aside for historical purposes. Depending on whether the planes are fully kitted out or not...these presumably would be the most original, unaltered warbirds out there of any kind (not that i know the details of all the museums in the world, and knowing the current generation of restorations are kept as authentic/original as possible).

Re: 20 Crated Spitfires Found in Burma????
 

I read some years ago- about Italian Macchis been buried in italy ?
IE-hangers.rock types.;
sharon

Re: 20 Crated Spitfires Found in Burma????
 

Hello,
These may not be the 20 aircraft.
But they were all with 11 Squadron
1 - MV319 - SSLS2561 - India 21/5/45.
2 - MV356 - City of Chester - India 25/6/45.
3 - MV363 - Empire Dynasty - India 7/6/45.
4 - NH748 - City of Chester - India 25/6/45.
5 - NH801 - Ocean Chata - India 23/5/45.
6 - NH804 - City of Hong Kong - India 17/9/45.
7 - NH841 - City of Chester - India 25/6/45.
8 - NH875 - Empire Dynasty - India 7/6/45.
9 - NM817 - Empire Dynasty - India 7/6/45.
10 - NM819 - City of Chester - India 25/6/45.
11 - NM822 - City of Chester - India 25/6/45.
12 - RN145 - Empire Paragon - India 12/4/45.
13 - RN175 - Fernbank - India 7/5/45.
14 - RN219 - Empire Gambia - India 30/8/45.
15 - SM887 - City of Chester - India 25/6/45.
16 - SM921 - Sancouan - India 31/1/46.
17 - SM934 - Ocean Gallent - India 14/10/45.
18 - TZ102 - Samsturdy - India 28/7/45.
19 - TZ115 - Empire Gambia - India 30/8/45.
20 - TZ189 - City of Chester - India 25/6/45.

Anyone know serial numbers of other Mk. XIV's or perhaps F.18's that served with 11 Squadron ?
All for now
Alex

Re: 20 Crated Spitfires Found in Burma????
 

Hi Guys,

This article was in a Melbourne newspaper today.
http://www.theage.com.au/world/green...018-27seg.html

If the British and Burmese Govts are making a deal about the Spitfires, it would appear that they have indeed been found.

Re: 20 Crated Spitfires Found in Burma????
 

http://news.yahoo.com/british-spitfi...034106927.html

This was posted on Yahoo news page.

Re: 20 Crated Spitfires Found in Burma????
 

Nothing has been found. Yet. Now that the monsoon season is over, the hunt is on.

Re: 20 Crated Spitfires Found in Burma????
 

It's in The Guardian, so it must be true.

P.S. doesn't that "Spitfire fighter planes" bit make you cringe? As if the British don't know what a Spitfire is!

Re: 20 Crated Spitfires Found in Burma????
 

To be honest Nick, nothing surprises me anymore when it comes to the level of historical knowledge in the general population, away from enthusiast groups. Too many examples of every possible warship being called a battleship, too many appalling errors in continuity in TV programmes... the list could go on. The Spitfire was of course a Triumph sportscar, was the aircraft named after that?

If you watch a couple of examples of the TV programme Pointless, you will soon be disillusioned as to how few people know what you'd imagine to be fairly widespread knowledge. And no, I don't mean trivia such as Madonna's top 40 hits! If a newspaper refers to a Spitfire fighter plane, at least it isn't calling it a bomber.

Re: 20 Crated Spitfires Found in Burma????
 

I thought the car and the airplane were named after the beer.

Re: 20 Crated Spitfires Found in Burma????
 

But, to use a favourite media word, it's iconic!

Re: 20 Crated Spitfires Found in Burma????
 

With all due respect, have you ever heard of a chap named Sidney Cotton and/or the Nr. 1 Photo Reconnaissance Unit (PRU)?

Now, I must admit that I'm a former US Army Photo Intelligence Analyst/Air Intelligence Officer, so when someone says "Spitfire fighter planes," I tend to say, "Well, yes but... " and - while I dinna cringe - I do have a tendency to roll my eyes and sigh....

It's been a good while since I was in the business, but as I recall, I was taught that the first effective photo recce birds flown by the Allies in WW II were Spitfires flown by the Nr 1 PRU, as they could fly faster and higher than any interceptors that the Axis had at that point.

For that matter, I believe that the Spits were used as ground attack "fighter-bombers" in Normandy following D-Day, but that wasn't my bailiwick, so I shan't comment on that.

Jim Kirk
(aka "RangerJimK," "Ranger Jim" et al
__________________
This information is top secret. When you have read it, destroy yourself.
---Marshall McLuhan

Re: 20 Crated Spitfires Found in Burma????
 

But what about the BSA Spitfire?

And I ask you truly, just what (and whose) "beer" are you talking about? Surely you aren't talking about English "Beer", eh? ;)

Re: 20 Crated Spitfires Found in Burma????
 

Yes, RangerJimK....real beer! English beer. :-)

Some classic adverts for Spitfire Ale to be found here for a little light relief and amusement:

http://www.spitfireale.co.uk/spitfire-adverts/

My favourite? "Spitfire Ale - Downed all over Kent. Just like the Luftwaffe!"

Re: 20 Crated Spitfires Found in Burma????
 

Yup, the sneakily-modified-Lockheed-Electra guy. But you I don't think a journalist could embrace the concept of photo-reconnaissance variants (sorry, "spy planes"!) without their head exploding, do you?

Re the beer adverts, I always liked "It's alright Smudger, it's one of ours."

Re: 20 Crated Spitfires Found in Burma????
 

Well, Yahoo, according to a recent story says "experts" are on their way to Burma to start looking/digging. They have a vet, Stanley Coombe who apparently says he saw them buried.

If they are found, the story says that they plan to return them to the UK, restore them, and fly them.

Wonder what the Myramar Generals will have to say about that?

Or, is this an "old" update story?

Re: 20 Crated Spitfires Found in Burma????
 

Take a look at this BBC report. It appears they have an archaeologist on board and a deal has been struck with the Burmese government.

Re: 20 Crated Spitfires Found in Burma????
 

Thanks, Nick.

I love the caption quote from him, "Mr Cundall said the Spitfire was a very special aeroplane". Wow, what a relevation! To give him his due, he probably realizes he's talking to a completely ignorant audience.

Re: 20 Crated Spitfires Found in Burma????
 

There's a short film clip as well now: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20925300

They're now talking in terms of over a 100 Spits buried at various sites in Burma.

Re: 20 Crated Spitfires Found in Burma????
 

Gee, I wonder how they dealt with the "Struck Off Charge" form?

Re: 20 Crated Spitfires Found in Burma????
 

Meanwhile in England: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013...-lands-airport

Re: 20 Crated Spitfires Found in Burma????
 

According to The Guardian article:
'Scuse me, but these were the days before shrink-wrapping and I strongly doubt if they would have applied Cosmoline to every square inch of each Spitfire's fuselage, engine, instruments, cockpit interior, etc. Hence, the image portrayed here of bright, shiny Spitfires fresh out of the box merits a measure of skepticism. Burma is one of the hottest, steamiest countries in the world where even the soil has high water content. If these chaps think they are going to run the Spits out of their boxes, slap on the wings and fly them back to the U.K., then I have a nice house at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue in Washington that I would like to sell them!

L.

Re: 20 Crated Spitfires Found in Burma????
 

Has anyone predicted whether or not they have engines? Might affect their plans ...

Bruce

Re: 20 Crated Spitfires Found in Burma????
 

Good point, Larry. But, please to remember that they had to get to Burma somehow, and to me that means by steamer - either as hold cargo or deck cargo. And whether the Panama Canal - Australia - Burma or around the Cape, that's a long journey by ship and it's salt air and salt spray all the way.
How were they protected?

Larry, I haven't even thought about cosmoline in about 50 years, but I remember cleaning cosmoline from crates of M1 Garands and M-1919 Browning MGs! [Yeah, I'm that old.... ;) ]

A more than a bit OT here, but how were aircraft shipped from GB to down under? Were there any companies manufacturing Spitfires, et al in Australia?

Cheers,
Jim

Re: 20 Crated Spitfires Found in Burma????
 

No, all Spitfires were built in the UK and shipped to wherever. There is an article on crated Spitfires on Key Publishing's Historic forum, along with the latest (external) comments on the dig story. The dig does have its own website and blog, but don't expect too much, at least as yet. I can't imagine anything significant going on it until the full story (whatever it turns out to be) is released to the press.

Re: 20 Crated Spitfires Found in Burma????
 

Jim K. wrote:
I think the various articles said the crates were buried at Mingaladon airfield, which is just a few kilometers north of Rangoon and is now Burma's principal international airport. Rangoon and Mingaladon were liberated from the Japanese by Indian infantry divisions 3-4 May 1945. So the crates could not have been buried there until after that date. By that point in the war, the ships delivering the crates to Burma could have safely come through the Suez Canal and off-loaded the crates in Rangoon.

Yep, Jim, back in the 50's I did some cosmoline removal, too. We had drums and cans filled with a liquid that we dipped the coated item into and the stuff came off pretty well, although we usually had to use a brush because some of that stuff had been applied to the items 15 years before and had hardened. Nasty stuff, but it did what it was supposed to.

Best,
Larry

Re: 20 Crated Spitfires Found in Burma????
 

In a BBC news report, today,

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-20957162

It is said they have found a crate but it is in water and they are having to pump it out.

Not encouraging.

Re: 20 Crated Spitfires Found in Burma????
 

The story keeps changing daily so I guess we'll have to wait a week or two to find out what's going on. The first articles implied they were all buried at Mingaladon, but now they have them at airfields all over Burma. Also, the number has now risen to 120.

L.

Re: 20 Crated Spitfires Found in Burma????
 

By the way, one of the people involved was quoted in a newspaper as saying that the aircraft could be in any state between perfectly preserved and "Daz", a sticky green sludge that is the product of decades of corrosion. One hopes this isn't the case but it was a welcome note of realism.

Re: 20 Crated Spitfires Found in Burma????
 

I hear what you're saying, but wasn't one of the reasons cited for the stashing of the aircraft was to keep them from the Japanese? If so, that would contradict the theory that "Rangoon and Mingaladon were liberated from the Japanese by Indian infantry divisions 3-4 May 1945. So the crates could not have been buried there until after that date." <shrug>

Now what would be almost as exciting (IMO) would be the necessary paperwork associated with the burial of these aircraft (assuming for the sake of argument that there are at least a couple of Spitfires buried there.

Re: 20 Crated Spitfires Found in Burma????
 

Yep, the story seems to be all over the place and contradictions abound. That's why we'll have to wait a while for the facts to surface.

Re: 20 Crated Spitfires Found in Burma????
 

One of the key problems with this story is that there appears to be no good reason why any Spitfires should have been buried in Burma at the time specified, let alone the very latest variant and the finest fighter available in theatre.

Re: 20 Crated Spitfires Found in Burma????
 

It really is difficult to view this with anything other than extreme scepticism. The story, and the number of Spitfires involved, seems to vary almost daily. Currently, we are told there are 60 waiting to be recovered with another 80 to be dug up at a later date.

If I were a betting man I'd wager a considerable sum on there being nothing there and, like most other 'buried aircraft' stories, for this to turn out to be nothing more than fantasy and an urban myth that has got out of hand. Of course, we'd all like it to be true. But.......!!!

Re: 20 Crated Spitfires Found in Burma????
 

The latest update - nothing found...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-21074699