RAF/USAAF claims over Yugoslavia between 17 and 21 october 1944
 

I'm searching who and at wich date shot down a Fi167 over Yugoslavia. This AC was a former Croat aircraft that defected to partisans and was at the time of its shooting down carrying a general, that was killed.

Problem is that the date of the AC loss is given as the 17th, while all sources agree that the general died on the 21st. It is fairly possible he died of his wounds but a possible date confusion is also a possibility.

RAF officialy recognized the error so the kill may actually be not listed in "kill lists".

Thanks in advance

Laurent

Re: RAF/USAAF claims over Yugoslavia between 17 and 21 october 1944
 

Hi Laurent

I've checked my RAF victory lists I have but couldn't find anything. As you are probably aware the Fi.167 was 4807/9 being operated from Vis by the HQ Liaison Squadron. Who was the general on board? I will keep digging.

Cheers
Brian

Re: RAF/USAAF claims over Yugoslavia between 17 and 21 october 1944
 

The general was the 8th Dalmatian Corps Commander, general-major Vlado Cetkovic. I had a note that he was killed on the 21st October 1944 and did a Google search to find more.

Several websites confirmed the death date and suddenly it turned into one more case of friendly fire. More details at this website:
http://www.yuairwar.com/lipovscak.asp

Re: RAF/USAAF claims over Yugoslavia between 17 and 21 october 1944
 

5 Squadron SAAF /Mustang Mk III's coded "GL- "

Re: RAF/USAAF claims over Yugoslavia between 17 and 21 october 1944
 

Laurent

Four pilots of 213Sqdn flew a sweep over Yugoslavia on 21 October 1944. They "sighted a Fi167 flying SE over area 2 miles SW of Binj aircraft crashed when attacked and burst into flames".

That is all that appears in 213Sqdn ORB there is no indication which of the pilots was involved in the attack.

Steve

Re: RAF/USAAF claims over Yugoslavia between 17 and 21 october 1944
 

Thanks Steve, it helps a lot. No wonder the name of the pilot(s) is not given, I suppose shooting down a German-made aircraft brought no sanction, even if in this case it was friendly.

By the way, if you have the ORB of 213 Sqn I will be interested to know what is written about a CR42 claim on the 15th in Zagreb area. Thanks in advance

Edited: just my two cents, but can you provide the whole list of the 213 Sqn pilots involved in the mission of the 21st. I'm just curious to know if there is a South African pilot among them.

Re: RAF/USAAF claims over Yugoslavia between 17 and 21 october 1944
 

Laurent

Sorry my reply was confusing. For 21 October the ORB does list the pilots involved in the sweep: 2/Lt R E Rorvik (SAAF), F/Lt E H McLellan, F/Sgt A Liudzius and Sgt A F W Hunt. In my earlier reply I meant to say that the ORB does not make clear which pilots attacked the Fi167. The way in which the incident was written up it implies that all pilots attacked the Fi167.

On 15 October W/Off J G P Watkins, Sgt A F W Hunt, F/Off G Allan and F/Sgt G Postlethwaite flew an

"Offensive sweep against enemy a/c over Zagreb - Sisak area. Sighted CR42 at 1000ft flying West towards Sisak on parallel course, 3 miles to starboard. Attacked by Sgt Hunt and F/Off allan and strikes observed. E/A crash landed and pilot seen to leave it in a position 1 mile North of river 8 miles SE of Sisak. CR42 not destroyed so straffed and set on fire."

Steve

Re: RAF/USAAF claims over Yugoslavia between 17 and 21 october 1944
 

Hi

One of the pilots involved in shooting down the Fi.167, Sgt Albinas Liudzius, was killed on 22/11/44. He came from Hackney, London, but I don't know the origin of his name. Any suggestions?

Brian

Re: RAF/USAAF claims over Yugoslavia between 17 and 21 october 1944
 

Thanks Steve for the details for both days.

I wasn't confused by your reply, I perfectly understood it. But as the Yugoslav sources talked about a South African Mustangs where they were RAF, I thought maybe a South African pilot should be involved and a guessed the oRB listed all pilots involved.

I think that amongst these 4 pilots, 2/Lt R E Rorvik is probably the one that claimed the Fi167. Or as the leader of the flight he was the one that was the most interrogated.

Re: RAF/USAAF claims over Yugoslavia between 17 and 21 october 1944
 

It's a Lithuanian family name. Or at least a name used in Lithuania. Albinas is also a Lithuanian first name.

Re: RAF/USAAF claims over Yugoslavia between 17 and 21 october 1944
 

Hi Laurent,

I thought it would be better to answer your querry on CR 42's here. Indeed NSGr.7 suffered much more losses during October:

14 October 44:
CR 42 W.Nr.9768 (1./NSGr.7; Uffz. Jost killed) crashed near Varazdin afet being shot down by 73.Sqn, another CR 42 was severely damaged in same engagement (according to Croat records, indeed two have been shot down)
CR 42 (pilot killed) shot down by partisan MG and crashed near Konjstina
2 CR 42 lost in flying accidents
2 CR 42 destroyed on ground, possibly in Kragujevac

15 October:
1 CR 42 lost in air combat near Zagreb
1 CR 42 lost and 3 damaged in operations, but not to enemy action
1 CR 42 damaged during non-combat op

As for the Fi 167, 213.Sqn pilots certainly couldn't be blamed, they had no idea about partisan aircraft and Sqn already shot down Croat Fi 167 just seven days earlier. Since some yugoslav documents bring the event in connection with South Africa, I am almost certain that it was Rorvik who shot the Fi 167 down, especially keeping in mind he led the flight and was most experienced of all involved, already with several claims to his credit.

Boris

Re: RAF/USAAF claims over Yugoslavia between 17 and 21 october 1944
 

Thanks Boris, it helps a lot

I am interested in every air loss in October 1944. Do you have more details about the Croat Fi167 shot down on the 14th ?

Re: RAF/USAAF claims over Yugoslavia between 17 and 21 october 1944
 

My mistake, it was a bit more than a week. On 10 October Sqn Ldr C. Vos, Sgt.S.E. Mould and Sgt D.E. Firman shot down 4808 flown by Croat ace Bozidar Bartulovic and his gunner Mate Jurkovic. Bartulovic was severely wounded, on other side Jurkovic hit the plane of Sgt Mould who crashed on return.
I checked some partisan documents and they state that single Mustang attacked and shot down aircraft of gen Cetkovic, so I raise my bet for Rorvik even more.

Re: RAF/USAAF claims over Yugoslavia between 17 and 21 october 1944
 

Thanks a lot again Boris

Edited: I just found that Rovrik died some days after the Fi167 attack, on the 30th of October (he is commemorated on the Malta Memorial).