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Shot Down Me 109?

Re: Shot Down Me 109?

This one is not a new picture but thanks again for the time you did past, and the links you gave us.

Cheers, Franck.

Re: Shot Down Me 109?

Hallo Nuppol,

That's what can be said according to the photo:

Bf 109 G-6 or G-14 W.Nr. unknown "Rote 10", III./JG 3, France, Summer 1944.

Any addition s to when and where most welcome;-))

Cheers
Marc

Re: Shot Down Me 109?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc-André Haldimann (Post 149308)

Bf 109 G-6 or G-14 W.Nr. unknown "Rote 10", III./JG 3, France, Summer 1944.

Any addition s to when and where most welcome;-))

Cheers
Marc

More likely it's a Bf 109 G-6 of IV./JG 3 in Italy in late 1943.

Most of the Bf 109s with the red spot and “double wave” marking were found in Lecce/San Donato but another in Cassano (probably Punta Cassano, SE of Lecce) also carried the emblem of JG 3 “Udet.” The only JG 3 Gruppe to see service in the Italian campaign (as far as I remember) was the IV. The red spot is mentioned on aircraft with black tactical numbers—i.e. those of 11./JG 3—but not the ones with white or yellow numbers (10. and 12. Staffeln).

The machine at Cassano was Bf 109 G-6/trop. W.Nr. 18724, Black 13 + red spot on white band. It carried the JG 3 Crest and its St.Kz. was CN+VA.

Other aircraft are described as having the red spot on the white band and then the "wave" Gruppe marking. I don't currently have a matching wreck report for black 10, only a "10" (no colour stated) dismantled and looted at Foggia, this was 18645 and carried the wave marking but no mention of a band, crest or red spot.

Re: Shot Down Me 109?

Thank you Marc and Nick...:)

Re: Shot Down Me 109?

Nick,

Many thanks for your thorough analysis; it is much appreciated!
Marc

Re: Shot Down Me 109?

I think I've found the right aircraft now. It was found at Pietravairano Caserta. By the time the report was compiled, it was described as "crashed, burnt, looted."

Bf 109 G-6, W.Nr. 18733.
Markings on fuselage "10 + red dot on white band followed by white"

The last word is missing but I'd guess it was intended to be a drawing of the wave marking.

The engine was DB 605 No. 01100200 

(Source: National Archives AIR40/2160)

Re: Shot Down Me 109?

Hooray!!!

Great job Nick, another 109 get's it W.Nr. back... Still some 20'000+ waiting for that;-))

Joke apart, many thanks again
Sincerely
Marc

Re: Shot Down Me 109?

:bow: I kowtow!!!!

Cheers, Franck.

Re: Shot Down Me 109?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick Beale (Post 149315)

Hi Guys, Hi Nick, Hi Marc,

Marc did put two others photographies concerning that "Red Doted unit":
One new http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...in/photostream
One old (well let's say a double ... see my comment under)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...in/photostream

and a well known one http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...in/photostream

My concern has to do with that last one, more particularly with Marc comment: "Notice the red dot under the JG 3 emblem, sign for the II Gruppe of this unit."

Is there a relation between that II./JG 3 red dot and the previous???
I mean, does this red dot under emblem really belong to II./JG 3??

Thanks for your answers.

Regards, Franck.

Re: Shot Down Me 109?

"Black 3" is probably Me 109 G-6 W.Nr. 18512, Black 3 + red spot and “wave.” This was found at Foggia Main and was described as "scrap ", its Stammkennzeichen was SI+UY.

Note that this one has a white outline to its tactical number whereas Black 10, WNr. 18733, didn't. (Incidentally, Black 10 was posted missing near Capua on 06.09.43, along with its pilot Ltn. Hans-Joachim  Schroth. The pilot evidently survived this time but was killed on 10 February 1944 at Vromshoop in the Netherlands, during an action against the 8th AF. His body was found on the 13th).

Re: Shot Down Me 109?

Hi Nick
I have WNr.18512 as stkz SI+UV in a block with SI+UA begins with WNr.18491
Regards
Peter van Gogh

Re: Shot Down Me 109?

Thanks Nick and Franck for bringing me back in the right tracks... Age is starting getting a toll on my memory, obviously...

And also to you, gogh, for the stkz.

And now for the II./JG 3 red dot emblem: this is quoted from Rittger 2007... Any confirmation?

Much appreciated
Marc

Re: Shot Down Me 109?

Quote:

Originally Posted by gogh (Post 166661)

Hi Nick
I have WNr.18512 as stkz SI+UV in a block with SI+UA begins with WNr.18491
Regards
Peter van Gogh

I'm sure you're right. The information I had was taken from a wrecked aircraft and often they had to make guesses from the parts of markings which survived.

Re: Shot Down Me 109?

OK Guys,

Thanks and welcome! Good stuff pals. Next?

Aaahh Yes the red dot:
I have it too Marc but I just wonder what about that particularity since all Gruppen had their own "balken" or "waves".
At least looks like a JG 53 "folie"!..

It will come back for sure in next future; no need to look for right now.

Cheers, Franck.

Re: Shot Down Me 109?

Ah, the red dot below the shield... this has puzzled me for a long time, Sinisa over on LEMB has it in his book on fighter emblems that this IS II./JG 3, I don't doubt him but I must admit to not having seen a photographic tie in between emblem and markings........