Losses in the last days of the Reich
 

Losses in the last days of the Reich

Byron

Re: Losses in the last days of the Reich
 

Nice, thanks!

Re: Losses in the last days of the Reich
 

and some more Gogybär

Re: Losses in the last days of the Reich
 

All files coming from the well known KTB of Lfl. 6 (available at Freiburg and also at the Nat Archives)

Re: Losses in the last days of the Reich
 

Byron thanks for posting the info.

John Manrho
I was not aware of these at the NA KEW what file are they in ?

Regards
David

Re: Losses in the last days of the Reich
 

Hello David,

the twilight of the Lw.

T-321 - R 19 O.K.Lw. (April 1945)
T-321 - R 17 O.K.Lw . (März 1945)

attached some more

regards
Byron

Re: Losses in the last days of the Reich
 

Hello Byron,

Thanks a lot!
First page, (numbered 2) ON 16/04 two losses, same place, same cause, same code number (Schwarze 4), same unit (10./JG 52):
Lines 9 and 10: one G-10/U4 WNr.612707 and one G-14 WNr.51262 (?)

Funny!

Regards, Franck.

Re: Losses in the last days of the Reich
 

Efkaristo Byron!

Much appreciated!
Marc

Re: Losses in the last days of the Reich
 

Hi guys,

thank you all for your kind words. It is my pleasure to share information with all my fellow researchers.

I`ll try to post all the losses of these two war diaries if it is wished.

hie another one page

Byron

Re: Losses in the last days of the Reich
 

Sure it is!!! :). Thanks again.

Franck.

Re: Losses in the last days of the Reich
 

Byron,

I concur!

Kalispera
Marc

Re: Losses in the last days of the Reich
 

Byron,

Thank you very much indeed! I am adding my voice to the chorus!

Regards,

Paul Thompson

Re: Losses in the last days of the Reich
 

we are going in full speed ahead

Re: Losses in the last days of the Reich
 

Many thanks Byron!!!

Page 2:
Line 6: One Bf 109 G-10; WNr. 13073 ??
Line 9: Kennung: "Winkel doppelstrich" (sic) for Doppelbalken?

Hmmmm ... I continue!

Regards, Franck.

Re: Losses in the last days of the Reich
 

Have you ever seen such a document?

Re: Losses in the last days of the Reich
 

Hello all,

another one

Re: Losses in the last days of the Reich
 

Excellent Byron, excellent!

The fuel coupon is a tool novelty for me, thanks for sharing.
Marc

Re: Losses in the last days of the Reich
 

So PI+PS "Alles kaputt" originally was to be sold to the Franco regime. Most interesting! The price for this - money or benefit - would be interesting, too, especially at this time of war...

Regards

Roland

Re: Losses in the last days of the Reich
 

hi,

my petrol station didn´t want to give me fuel for this coupon ;-)

all the best
jim

Re: Losses in the last days of the Reich
 

For sure not everybody is aware of.., that we are at the edge of next one

Rémi

Re: Losses in the last days of the Reich
 

Hi Jim,

tell the owner of your petrol station to give you the fuel for this coupon, the "Fourth Reich" wil pay him.

Re: Losses in the last days of the Reich
 

Do you really want to run your car on B4?

Re: Losses in the last days of the Reich
 

The KTB Lfl. 6 has in total 7697 pages.... are you going to include all pages....:-)))))

Re: Losses in the last days of the Reich
 

No John,

i don`t have them all, only the 2 war diaries i mentioned, that`s about 2.000 pages and only a few schow losses.

Re: Losses in the last days of the Reich
 

Dear John,

I just saw this note of yours in the thread, would you mind giving the Kew reference?

Dear Byron,

Thank you for your work! Could you state the date for the loss summary in image 0557a? I've appended the link to your post below so as to avoid confusion.

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showpo...98&postcount=9

Regards,

Paul Thompson

Re: Losses in the last days of the Reich
 

and picture!

Hi all,

Funny all those discoveries; I won't believe Byron was the only one to do it, now and before.
Or it was that much incomprehensible (at that time) that they have been misinterpreted and transformed ... ?:

a G-8/R5 (?) what's that? in 1./NAG 5 ... Eins. for Einsatz?? OK, why not.
Following G-14s:
Kennung J2+2- (Stab machine)
J2+22 and J2+24. What size and colour for J2?

J2+2- is interesting. If I remember well there are two pictures of a BF109G-6/14, belly landing in snow in a "Nebel" atmosphere !!!! With some kind of "+2-" markings. That one at last? Maybe I'm wrong, I'm going to check.

Cheers, Franck.

Re: Losses in the last days of the Reich
 

Sorry! Nothing to do with that one! :o :D!

BUT, nevertheless, the trail is interesting if we read the following picture:
Not "Strich 6 Strich" but 6 Strich, the number being located right in the middle of a normal Stab Strich after the Balkenkreutz ... No? Not a goo idea, Humm?..

Cheers, Franck.

PS: YES, THAT long shot!

Re: Losses in the last days of the Reich
 

Franck,

An interesting start for a not so rare position of tactical markings behind the Balkenkreuz. I have found at least five different photographically documented occurrences, listed below:

The first is Bf 109 G-14 W.Nr. 464 463, of FFS B 1 Kaltenkirchen, February 1945, published in D'Amico and Valentini 1984, p. 102? A close-up can be found in Bergström and Pegg 2005, p. 183.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...57625539886908
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...57625539886908

The second situation are planes of Jasta 5 d. ROA, based at Deutsch Brod:
this unit flew a dozen of Bf 109 G-10 produced by WNF Diana - Tisnov. their tactical markings are all applied aft of the Balkenkreuz, like the photographically documented Bf 109 G-10/U4 "Weisse 15" and Bf 109 G-10 W.Nr. 612 762 "Weisse 24" (Janda and Poruba 2004, p. 64 - 68).
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...57625218079461

The third type of situation where the tactical markings figure at the rear of the Balkenkreuz do stem from an unknown NAGr: one of their machines, Bf 109 G-10 W.Nr. 770 293 "Gelbe 67" escaped from Neu Brandenburg on 12 April 1945 and landed in Bulltofta (Hitchcock 1977, p. 10):
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...57625218079461

The other was found at Köthen, also in April 1945; it is Bf 109 G-10 W.Nr. 770 157 "Gelbe 66" (Wolowski 2010, p. 59):
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...57625218079461

Not much of a systematic trail so far which would allow us to recognize the nature of units positioning their tactical markings this way:the known to me examples are from a training, a recce and a fighter unit...

I hope some enlightenment as to why this position will come through this excellent thread.
Marc

Re: Losses in the last days of the Reich
 

Hello Marc,

Last two are in my mind too, in a small corner ...
I'm just talking about one Stab machine for the moment.
It's obvious that without more photo evidence and/or clear caption I'm still with my usual - How they use to say? - "mere speculation"; that's it!

But I like that last one; It's stylish, isn't it? :D.

Have we any NAGr. 3 available photo evidence displaying that "J2" marking?

Cheers, Franck.

Re: Losses in the last days of the Reich
 

NAGr. 3? None that I'm aware of...

Cheers
Marc

Re: Losses in the last days of the Reich
 

Dear Paul,

Hier are the pages 555a and 556a, as one can see the date is 23.04.1945

Byron

Re: Losses in the last days of the Reich
 

For the combination of number/ unit code the Bf 109s of NAGr 14 come in mind, coded 12 + 5F and 3 + 5F ?

Regards

Roland

Re: Losses in the last days of the Reich
 

Hi all,

some "Werk-Nummern" of Me 262 (Jagdgeschwaders 44)

Re: Losses in the last days of the Reich
 

Hi,

rebels in Munich, unbelievable

Re: Losses in the last days of the Reich
 

Hallo Roland,

Correct! I thought of them, but was more axed on the numbers this morning...

Thanks
Marc

Re: Losses in the last days of the Reich
 

To be more precise, that "+7" was photographed at Holzkirchen, where the pilots of I° Gr.C. of the ANR were training on the Bf 109 from November 1944 to late January 1945. In the attached photo, it can be clearly seen behind a group pf Italian pilots on the white snowy plain of Holzkirchen airfield.

If it came there from an operational unit I don't know, but it is sure that it was there with training tasks before ending abandoned in a Czeckoslovakian airfield in May 1945...

Re: Losses in the last days of the Reich
 

Yes, interesting to find orders relating to this in a KTB. Here's some additional info about the mentioned events (if you can read German): http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freiheitsaktion_Bayern

Regards,
Christian

Re: Losses in the last days of the Reich
 

Dear Byron,

Thank you very much! On something of a side note, does the KTB give any indication as to the proportion of Bf 109K-4s in Luftflotte 6 fighter units?

Regards,

Paul

Re: Losses in the last days of the Reich
 

I don`t know Paul,

i have to go threw the diary

regards
Byron

Re: Losses in the last days of the Reich
 

Hi Byron-,

thanks for sharing this material.
If you have time and also material from Luftflotte 7 in your treasure, I'm looking for the losses in South Germany especially from April 22nd till April 26th.
Would be great if you could provide it. If not, no problem.

Thanks in advance

Rolfeb