Bf109G-10 'white 11 + -' II./JG52 revisit
 

Hello all!

I was wondering if anybody has any new information on Bf109G-10 'white 11 + -' of II./JG52 flown by Ofw.Ritcher(?)

Was he indeed the pilot?
Any known Wr.N. for this aircraft?
A dear friend told me it was possible this aircraft flew with Wfr.Gr.21 Mortars for ground attack. Could this in fact be true?

Once again thanks in advance!

Re: Bf109G-10 'white 11 + -' II./JG52 revisit
 

Perhaps Oblt.Wilhelm Batz?

Re: Bf109G-10 'white 11 + -' II./JG52 revisit
 

Impossible. Batz flew with K-4 "<<". What about Helmut Lipfert ? One of Neubiberg's Bf 109 flew Helmut Lipfert. Till today his aircraft has not been identified. Very probable Lipfert's Bf 109 was signed "<<" during I./JG 53 time. After I./JG 53 was disbanded its Bf 109 came to II./JG 52 including Lipfert himself.

Regards,
Gregor

Re: Bf109G-10 'white 11 + -' II./JG52 revisit
 

That is something to think about!

Re: Bf109G-10 'white 11 + -' II./JG52 revisit
 

This is highly unlikely:
1) There were enough specialised ground attack units in the area (SG2, SG10, IV./SG9).
2) I never read about any use of the Werfergranaten in 1945. Before, they were onyl used in the West incl. Med. They were no good.
3) I read several of books on JG52: Barbas-books and 4 or 5 (auto-)biographies. None ever mentioned this weapon, but i.e. attacks on tanks with MK108 in 1945.

Re: Bf109G-10 'white 11 + -' II./JG52 revisit
 

Hello all,

I have this plane captionned as Ofw. Richter's one, taken in Neubiberg on 8th of March. That is before JG 53 was disbanded.
But; good to notice (to follow Gregor comments)
One color profile has been published where we can see that:
- There is a huge painting patch under the White 11, enough to cover a double chevron. (visible on picture too).
- JG 53 emblem has been over painted on cowling.
- There are TWO II Gruppe band: The one we see on picture and another one behind the cross.
I don't know where the designer took all informations to complete it.

But if that so:
Picture has not been taken on 8th of march :D.
And effectively the plane came from JG 53. Lipfert? I don't know and why not?
Since II./JG 53 as been disbanded at the same period, it's possible, because of the two gruppe bands, and supposing artist view is correct, that plane came from II./JG 53 and not I./JG 53.

Hence, for me, and for the moment, it's still Ofw Richter until further notice. Or Just Ofw. Richter pictured in that plane.
What about "Rosemarie"?

Regards, Franck.

Re: Bf109G-10 'white 11 + -' II./JG52 revisit
 

... Hmmm!!!
But, to NOT follow Gregor comments.
Kracker is giving a Bf 109 K-4 yes but <1 ...
And it is true that the smilling guy beneath in attachment looks to have the same smile than the one in White 11.
I really understand Oberst suggestion!!

Cheers, Franck.

Re: Bf109G-10 'white 11 + -' II./JG52 revisit
 

Thanks for the great replies!

Re: Bf109G-10 'white 11 + -' II./JG52 revisit
 

This would explain the condition of 'Rosemarie'. Scratched, dented, burned paint, etc. Did JG 52 keep kill tallies on there aircraft this late in the war? Other then 'white 5'?

Re: Bf109G-10 'white 11 + -' II./JG52 revisit
 

I know nothing about the way those planes got such paintings; but for sure many of II./JG 52 planes presented the same "rusty" aspect judging from the available pictures.

I think, whatever, there is something to do with the fact they have been brought from another (others?) unit.
The most common feature being the large patch under code number.
And since not all did bear a chevron it's another reason to consider Lipfert's plane out of this business - It's a possibility but not a strong one.
Better; II./JG 52 used small numbers and - of course - larger ones have been painted over hence the said large patches.

For the rest, as I said, I don't know.

Regards, Franck.

Re: Bf109G-10 'white 11 + -' II./JG52 revisit
 

Franck,
Do you have any information on Ofw. Ritcher the pilot in the famous foto of Rosemarie?

Re: Bf109G-10 'white 11 + -' II./JG52 revisit
 

Actualy none, sorry. And he is not listed in KRACKER data base, though there is quite a lot of Richter.

Re: Bf109G-10 'white 11 + -' II./JG52 revisit
 

From: http://aircrewremembrancesociety.com...anPilotsR.html

~Richter, Gerhard Ogefr - born 1924
~Bomber Trained, 3/EJGr(J)
~Do 17, Do 217, Bf 109 "Black 2", Bf 109G-10 "White 11"
~Fighter Operational Clasp
~A "New Growth" pilot, he was licensed as a fighter pilot on 23 March, 1945. He flew "Black 2" on his 1st mission on 7 April, 1945, which he forced landed at Halberstadt, due to an oxygen/blackout problem. AC pictured at Neubiberg, May 1945. The name "Rosemarie" appeared under the cockpit. Thought to be Richter's AC.

Re: Bf109G-10 'white 11 + -' II./JG52 revisit
 

:D Well I have to update my "own" Kracker base then.

Though is is the proof:
- Melvin site is a source fed by other sources: Us, roughly, which is not that safe.
- In that particular case Melvin's source concerning that White 11 is most probably that only one picture we all got, with our mere speculations (Note that for the first time I'm able to say that!!!)
My caption says 8 of March (8 of May? a typo then) as I said upper when ARS is telling us that Richter was appointed Fighter Pilot on 23rd of March.

Frankly until being able to link "Rosemary" (His girl friend, his mother and/or his pet) to a pilot's name we won't have a credible clue. Even though, without a miracle, we won't be able to put a name on this smilling face even with White 11 pilot's name.

That's all folks! Franck.

Re: Bf109G-10 'white 11 + -' II./JG52 revisit
 

Quote:

"* Bf 109G-10/U4 "White 11" of II./jg52 (marked "Rosemarie") is an exception.
The aircraft, abandoned at Neubiberg, carried a triangular sign with the number
"100", marking 100-octane fuel (iso-octane). Its use can be explained by an effort
to increase output with the same parameters of the engine. On the other hand it is
not quite clear, where the 100-octane fuel was to be aquired in 1945's Germany
desperatley struggling with lack of any kind of fuel. The plane might have been
a special machine demanded by a particular - probably prominent - pilot."

Helmut Lipfert perhaps? If this is a possible scenario, then Gerhard Richter possibly not the pilot? Not enough 'points'? Thanks.