Finnish & Luftwaffe losses on 25-30 Jun 1941
 

On the 25-30 June 1941 the VVS Northern Front and the VVS Baltic and Northern Fleet made air raids against the airfields of the Finnish Air Force and the 5. Luftflotte. Soviets overall used up to 540 aircraft of different types against 39 airfields. How many FAF and Luftwaffe aircraft were lost? I read a remark of "The result of the operation is considered the failure of the German and Finnish commanders from active operations in the first days of the war".

Re: Finnish & Luftwaffe losses on 25-30 Jun 1941
 

Finnish Air Force had no losses due to these air raids against airfields, but the Soviets had a lot.

Matti

Re: Finnish & Luftwaffe losses on 25-30 Jun 1941
 

Hi,

this is a perfect piece of Soviet propaganda. You may find the details of these attacks in book of Mark Solonin "25th June". Some bomb damage was reported from Turku airfield: "damaged runway and a few hangars. Three damaged aircraft. One of ground crews killed and two injured".

Regards

Robert

Re: Finnish & Luftwaffe losses on 25-30 Jun 1941
 

Thanks Matti. Strangely Robert this was the only "good" sentence about the planning of the Soviet command on this type of operation in the book but didn't elaborate on the results and was only in the "Introduction" section. The rest was critical of the mass raid plans against airfields made by the Soviet command. I thought that the "25th June" was probably another of Mark Solonin's political ant-Soviet books instead of a history on the subject. I have found that this book "Новая хронология Катастрофы 1941" does have some pretty good material on the early days of the German air offensive on the South-Western and South Fronts.

Re: Finnish & Luftwaffe losses on 25-30 Jun 1941
 

Hi,

there are many good information`s like number of sorties, losses etc. regiment by regiment. So not only political manifest. BTW there is part no.2 of his "Новая хронология Катастрофы 1941".

Regards

Robert

Re: Finnish & Luftwaffe losses on 25-30 Jun 1941
 

Yes, I saw that he came out with a second volume. Have you read it yet? I'm interested if it is the same area as the previous volume or another region or everywhere.

Re: Finnish & Luftwaffe losses on 25-30 Jun 1941
 

Hi,

it covers the rest of the units for 22.6.41.

Regards

Robert

Re: Finnish & Luftwaffe losses on 25-30 Jun 1941
 

Nokose, your statment are very, very funy! Go and read such no political, very accurate, and very cedibile sources of no political data like M.Kozevnikow, Komandowanije i sztab WWS Sowietskoj Armii w Wielik... Otiecz.. wojnie 1941-1945 gg, Moskwa 1978, or A.A. Novikov, W niebie Leningrada, Moskwa 1970. Second is fundamental to this topic. There you will find what you are looking for. No any anty-Soviet propaganda. All is smooth and according official Soviet political doctrine. I think it is exactly what you are looking for. No any anty-Soviet information.
Funy but true.

You may see, also my story (only in Polish), about this events, Sowieci nad Finlandią 25-30 czerwca 1941 roku, in: Militaria XX wieku nr 6(15), 2006, p. 4-17. There are losses of both side: Soviet and Finnish. The last one were minimal. BTW this material is against Soviet propaganda information.

Regards
mw

Re: Finnish & Luftwaffe losses on 25-30 Jun 1941
 

From my experience, Mark Solonin is a very tendentious author. His books are strongly affected by his own political preferences. Yes, he cites many documents but in every particular case we cannot be sure that he cites ALL needed documents.

I'd say, Mirek, don't buy one crap for another.

A complete non-political history of air war on Eastern front is still waiting for its researcher.

Re: Finnish & Luftwaffe losses on 25-30 Jun 1941
 

Maxim
I do not know if you even read a book written by Kozevnikow, Novikov or even Inoziemcev, classical Soviet era military authors, who personaly created history of VVS RKKA in WW II (Kozevnikow and main air marschall A.A. Novikv), but if you read them and compare with Sołonin's books, you will see a big difference. If you would like to see it?
I can do this difference. I do not see in Russia official air military historians (excluding M. Morozov), who make such deep study on begining of naval air war in 1941.

There are of course some mistakes, errors in Sołonin's books too. I have found them in each books, including the last one (both parts of NChK). But level of them is not so high as you find for example in books written by Ch. Bergstrom (he put many false, wrong information in English about Air Barbarossa) or in books written by D. Chasanov. These last authors are very strongly affected by their own political preferences, one side searches etc. Both makes perfect propaganda books, the true are not so important for them - especially for Bergstrom. I can not say the same about Sołonin. Errors are normal during writing, all writing know them well.

If you do not like it, do not read these bullshit or do it yourself and then you will see. I do it personaly for many years. It makes me big diffrent, and respect to other hard work. Sołonin has made solid works. He can dare to put not easy and nice question.

Only writing: Mark Solonin is a very tendentious author.

But who is better then he in Russia or another country? Write it simple. Who: Kozevnikow, Inoziemcev, Novikow, Chazanov, or even forigner Ch. Bergstrom? All five some written about 25-30 VI 1941. But mostly it is only pure propaganda information and also very false. The best one is Chazanov, but he is still far away behind Sołonin searches.

Regards,
mw

PS
When you exactly read Sołonin books you will find that there are lack of many Soviet documents.

Re: Finnish & Luftwaffe losses on 25-30 Jun 1941
 

Thank You for your input Maxim1 and Mirek on Mark Solonin's work (I had to go look up "tendentious"). I still found his work had some of the things that I was looking for when he qouted sections from the documents on the units. The best I've read so far on that period was an article by Mikhail Timin called "Retaliatory Strike The actions of the Soviet Bomber Aviation 22 June 1941" on the attacks made against the Germans in East Prussia and Poland but sadly its only half of the day. I found Mark Solonin's book "На Мирно Спящиъ Аэродромах... 22 июня 1941" had almost nothing that I was looking for on the subject. Dmitriy Khazanov tends to forget to be non-bias in his histories.

But back to the subject at hand. Mirek do you have information about the losses of both sides of the Finnish airfields?

Re: Finnish & Luftwaffe losses on 25-30 Jun 1941
 

Yes I have.

mw

Re: Finnish & Luftwaffe losses on 25-30 Jun 1941
 

In my opinion the better ones are Vitaly Gorbach, Oleg Rastrenin and Aleksandr Mardanov.

As for Solonin's books, well, anti-Soviet propaganda is none better than Soviet propaganda, that's all I can say.

Re: Finnish & Luftwaffe losses on 25-30 Jun 1941
 

Mardanov's articles have nothing common with serious research. For example, when writing about events of 6 October 1941 in his article 'Defending Russia's North' he somehow managed even not to mention interception by 151 Wing RAF over Vaenga, giving full credit for all Ju88's of KG 30 destroyed that day to Soviet I-16 fighters and AA batteries.
Yuriy Rybin wrote an article, in which he criticised Mardanov's research and his methods (could be read using Google translator or something similar):
http://www.airpages.ru/dc/ww2nf.shtml

Re: Finnish & Luftwaffe losses on 25-30 Jun 1941
 

We are talking about books or articles?

V. Gorbach's book about air war over Kurs, very solid, but similar level to Sołonin's Novaja Ch. K. part 1 and 2. Both written according archival material.
It is depends, personal preferences, who is better writing, Sołonin is more readable, as for me. Sources level is the same - RGVA documents.

Mardanov is know as a autor of articles, which he would like to pospone Y. Rybin, but he did not do it in good level. Rybin later had "smashed" his article in his responce in Aviacja no 11 and 12. It was 9 years ago or so. Mardanov is not very solid, as for me. It is very easy to find many lacks in his materials. He would like to see much more (Soviet air victories and more LW's losses) then were in fact.

Rastrenin, if right remeber put several articles.

Articles, even the best one, are difficoult to compared with books, always it is bigger effort.

The same situatin with Rybin and Mardanov. Rybin has written very good articels, and much more then Mardanov. He is very solid researcher about air war over North, the best one in this area about WW II.
Second one in the same area but earlier period - about Winter War - is Oleg Kisielov.
Both in fact had made much more solid material about this air wars then Sołonin. But both too has not yet done any books, only very solid articles, if I am right. I have not yet seen any books done by them. Rybin is planned to edit in Osprey about Soviet Hurricane's aces this year.

Next better researcher then Sołonin is Siergiej Abrasov, his book about air war over Spain is fundamental (2 edition).
The same is with Mirosłav Morozov, who is focused on naval topics.
V. Kotelnikov is also quite good in books and articles.

Also should be mentioned Michail Timin, his last materials about Soviet bomber responce attacks on 22.06.41 are very good done (2 very long articles). Sołonin had used some information from him too.

Anyway the main topic is air attack on 25-30.06.41. Only Novikov, Kozewnikov, Inoziemcev, Sołonin and Chazanov (with support of C-F. Geust from Finland) as Russian authors has done some material about this events. If I am right? And of course similar material has done C-F Geust from Finland too, very solid articel.

Regards,
mw

PS
It is very pity, that such air magazines like Aviacja, Istoria Aviacji, Mir Aviacji, Aviamaster leter (Aviapark) has finnished their edition.