Me 262 on eBay
 

Hi Guys,

http://www.ebay.com/itm/WW2-Ninth-9t...item257636ab86

Looks like a new(?) picture taken in Insbruck-Hötting, doesn't it?

Regards, Franck.

Re: Me 262 on eBay
 

Yes, it´s Innsbruck-Hötting.
Taken from the road north of the airfield (now Kranebitter Allee) leading to Telfs. View direction is southwest towards the Inn river running from right to left in the background.
First major village to the west is Zirl. There the road to Munich is beginning so additional photographs from Hofoldinger Forest/Brunnthal wrecks may be possible, too.

Info of the Me 262 is hard to obtain without any additional photographic detail. Interesting the nose gear being bent forward. Maybe "Red 1" WNr 170053(?) from JV 44 (formerly I./KG(J) 51)?

Servus

Roland

Re: Me 262 on eBay
 

Hi Roland,

Thank you for site description.
The two "white" dots under the canopy plead for "Rote 1", effectively. Among all "green" Me 262s found at Innsbruck-Hötting it's the only one I see with such details.

Regards, Franck.

Re: Me 262 on eBay
 

RolandF
I agree that the aircraft in Red 1. However, I would be interested in how you arrived at 170053 as the possible w/n. I have never seen it related to the Innsbruck 262s.
Regards, Walt

Re: Me 262 on eBay
 

Hallo Walt,

this is why I put a question mark behind this WNr.
I have a list with all Me 262s found on Hötting airfield and "Red 1" is connected with this WNr.
I obtained this list by gathering all available info - as far as I remember even info from Innsbruck archives.
A questionable WNr, I know. But maybe a basis for further research.

Regards

Roland

Re: Me 262 on eBay
 

Hi Roland,

WerkNr. 170053 :
Me 262 A-1a
produced at MTT Leipheim
Stkz. KL+WG

Cheers - Rainer

Re: Me 262 on eBay
 

Hi Roland,

I agree that the aircraft in the photos is "Red 1". However, its camouflage and markings, and that of the other aircraft adjacent to it, “White 12”, indicate both aircraft are from the 1133xx series. Note that the werknummer was only applied to the base of the port side of the fin.

In the 26 April 1945 München-Riem Me 262 list, the following werknummern are indicated for seven (7) aircraft assigned to JV 44:
113331
113334
113337
113343
113344
113357
113365

In the second part of the list, aircraft undergoing "conversion" at the DHL facilities there include seven (7) others from this series:
113337
113338
113340
113354
113357
113359
113371

Two other aircraft are indicated (O’Connell, 2005) to have been discovered at Innsbruck-Hötting but interestingly are not listed on the Me 262 document: 113368 and 113369.

It is interesting that 113371 ended up at Innsbruck-Hötting, and two others - 113331 and 113357 - were also listed in the JV 44 section of the document. It is probable that they were with the unit and listed in error as still with DHL.

Based on the above, it would appear that both "Red 1" and "White 12" found at Innsbruck are from the 1133xxx werknummer series, and that the former is one of the aforementioned werknummers as listed for JV 44 aircraft.

Cheers,

David

Re: Me 262 on eBay
 

Thanks all for all comments.

@David, If I remember well (I was out for a while and still not 100% in :)) You already gave such list but it's good to remember it!
And Byron did put a scan too of such listing (two or three pages) one or two month ago.
VERY HELPFUL.

Any other picture of "Rote 1" showing the front wheel leg in such "bended forward" positionning?
What surprise me in that last picture is the comment: "May 1945".
Which part of May? The other picture I have (without front wheel leg; picture being cut) shows a rather "clean" aircraft. On this late, canopy, engine cowling and other details have been already salvaged. Quite fast!!

Regards, Franck.

Re: Me 262 on eBay
 

When I see DHL, I immediately think of the Dutch parcel-delivery firm. Was this maybe a typo for DLH (Deutsche Lufthansa)? Damn those corporate acronyms!

Re: Me 262 on eBay
 

Hi All,

Can you go deeper Nick, please?
Thank you for your comments.

Cheers, Franck.

Re: Me 262 on eBay
 

Not much deeper to go. I half-remembered some reference to Me 262 conversion (and repair?) work being done in DLH workshops, and I wondered if that's what David meant.

Re: Me 262 on eBay
 

David

PM sent.

Cheers,

Damian

Re: Me 262 on eBay
 

Hi Nick,

Yes, damn those corporate abbreviations and acronyms! Too many and too confusing. DLH is what I meant.

Regarding the 'conversions' taking place there, I seem to recall writing something about this. I think my comclusion was that standard A-1a Jäger aircraft sourced directly from the respective manufacturers were being upgraded to the multi-purpose A-2a Jabo variant. This would entail the addition of the ETC 501 bomb racks as well as adding of the cockpit armoured plate (attached to the canopy) and other minor tweaks. I should think that this is a subject that needs some definitive answers.

Cheers,

David

Re: Me 262 on eBay
 

Hi David,

I've just finished Robert Forsyth's latest for Osprey and something like that struck me. Authors are unanimous that to carry bombs the A-2a had two cannon removed and a supplementary fuel tank installed - to address weight and c.g. issues. So how come KG 51 operated increasing numbers of 4-cannon machines as time went on? The usual way to overcome weight/payload problems is to fit a more powerful engine, so did they wring extra power out of the Jumo 003 or what?

Re: Me 262 on eBay
 

Dear All,

Regarding the DLH conversion facility at Munich-Riem, the April 26, 1945 document says no more, no less, except that a specific group of Me 262's was there. No reason is given as to why.

As for bomber versions having 4 MK 108, the original distinction between fighters with 4 MK 108 and bombers with 2 MK 108 was eliminated as the war progressed, with aircraft for both end uses having 4 MK 108. The Me 262 suffered from a too rearward CG. It wasn't very long into service that a rear 600 liter fuel tank was added, adding to the CG problem. However, with the added weight in the nose of the bomber version, this likely helped balance out the CG problem. Even then, careful adherence as to how much to fill the 600 l tank given the specific configuration had to be adhered to. Ironically, IIRC, the orders were to fill the 600 l tank even less if bombs were mounted. I never understood why.

So, what was happening to the Me 262's at the DLH shop a Munich-Riem? Well, if these were for JV 44, then why equip them with bombs, unless they were to be employed in the close support bombing role? They could have been in the shop for repairs or finishing up being fitted out. Or, my favorite thesis, that they were being equipped with R4M racks.

Regards,
Richard