Ju-88, Volume One
 

of Two. Scheduled for July 2013.


http://www.amazon.com/Junkers-Ju88-V...ref=pd_sim_b_7





Usual disclaimer,
Ed

Re: Ju-88, Volume One
 

My congratulations to Art Medcalf on the culmination of his many years worth of research on the Ju 88.

Regards,
Richard

Re: Ju-88, Volume One
 

This has to be the most interesting German a/c monograph for many years!

Re: Ju-88, Volume One
 

Our own Artibob!

Been a while :)

Re: Ju-88, Volume One
 

We have been waiting for a long time Art:)

Really look forward to these volumes!!

Cheers
Stig

Re: Ju-88, Volume One
 

Is this out yet?

Re: Ju-88, Volume One
 

Amazon in the US is now showing October :(


Amazon in the UK is showing it as available.


Ed

Re: Ju-88, Volume One
 

Bookdepository.com lists it for 04 October 2013.

I am also waiting anxiously the book!

Re: Ju-88, Volume One
 

Well, as of today, this source says it is available: http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/Junk.../9781906537425

Not a particularly good marketing effort by the publisher...

Re: Ju-88, Volume One
 

unfortunately its not.

Re: Ju-88, Volume One
 

The Book Depository seems to still list it as available. Yet, e.g. Ian Allan's site knows nothing about the book.

Re: Ju-88, Volume One
 

my copy has been despatched from amazon.co.its definetly available guys.
dave.

Re: Ju-88, Volume One
 

As of today, The Book Depository lists the book for 43.99 euros.

Re: Ju-88, Volume One
 

Yes, I just ordered my copy from them.

Re: Ju-88, Volume One
 

I did too, early this morning.

Re: Ju-88, Volume One
 

.. lovely (328-page) book from Mr Medcalf and the Classic team, got my copy yesterday, Vol I covers " Development, Production and Technical history"

(As I said in post 10...sorry about that). Forthcoming Vol II " At war -Day and Night " looks just as exciting..

..and printed in Bulgaria Jukka...

Re: Ju-88, Volume One
 

I got earlier today a confirmation that the book has been shipped.

As for Bulgaria, at least Slovenian printers do very good work...

Re: Ju-88, Volume One
 

Superb quality print, with a good paper stock that ensures a very very good image rendition, thats before reading the first page!

Re: Ju-88, Volume One
 

Ah, so, here's hoping we get a few words about the writing part as well.






Ed

Re: Ju-88, Volume One
 

Ed, see first comments on FalkeEins's blog: http://falkeeins.blogspot.fi/2013/07...unkers-ju.html

Looks very promising text-wise too.

Re: Ju-88, Volume One
 

Does anyone have Medcalf's e-mail? I'd like to contact him regarding Ju 88 wing skin buckling.

Re: Ju-88, Volume One
 

For those who understand German:
I have written a detailed book review in this German board.
I'm sorry, but the book is terrible, full of errors and gaps. Moreover, it is a torture for a German reader.

Google Translator provides more or less acceptable results in the translation of the review.

Regards
Peter

Re: Ju-88, Volume One
 

Dear Artie Bob and Peter,

I know Art that you researched the Ju 88 series for many years and we all were hoping that you would one day publish your findings. Whether or not your comments are accurate Peter, I am dismayed at your strong attacks on Art and his effort. This wasn't the work of a hack and such punishing commentary is unbecoming.

With such an attack, I tend to doubt there will be a volume II, which is a shame, considering the time and effort Art has devoted to this subject. Nor am I so sure that all of your criticisms are correct, as the spelling of the same word could vary from document to document. For instance, Stauffen has been officially spelled with 1 or 2 "f's".

I further know that Art had spent an enormous amount of time researching original documents.

I live on the Delmarva Peninsula, which consists of all of Delaware and the eastern shores of Maryland and Virginia. By locals, it is either referred to as "The Delmarva Peninsula" or "Delmarva", yet national news will repeatedly refer to it as "The Delmarva", which is incorrect. Is it a grievous error? Not really.

I have a friend in Germany who is fluent in both English and German. Yet, because I have a collection of dictionaries and on-line resources, he will come to me on occasion for the correct interpretation of a word or phrase.

As in English, German words can have multiple meanings and thus the correct interpretation is both context driven and having some background in local idioms.

Getting a 100% perfect translation of German words or phrases into English is an almost impossible task.

But, acting like a know-it-all without consideration for the impact of your words just grates like hell.

Regards,
Richard

Re: Ju-88, Volume One
 

Dear Richard,


I understand how you feel and know about your contributions to Luftwaffe history as well, but the book is not available in the US yet, so it's a bit early to sound the death knell. Here is a review from a reader at amazon.co.uk:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Junkers-Ju88...=ju+88+medcalf



Regards,
Ed

Re: Ju-88, Volume One
 

Perhaps messieurs Medcalf and Achs could have worked together in the first place? I do find it annoying that German authors criticize foreign authors for errors in books about German topics while nobody has forbidden these German authors from publishing their research in English instead of hiding behind a language barrier.

Re: Ju-88, Volume One
 

Given that his parentage is neither English nor American, I think Eddie Creek might be highly amused at your mentioning him in the context of »die englisch-amerikanische Forschung« Still, we all make mistakes ...

Re: Ju-88, Volume One
 

Hello Peter,


Can you tell us about some of the errors? My German is poor and automatic translation is not that reliable I think.



Regards,
Ed

Re: Ju-88, Volume One
 

Some of the spelling errors caught my attention as well. E.g. by a quick look at the bibliography I found two mistakes. But these are errors that an editor should catch; an author becomes too blinded by his own text.

Re: Ju-88, Volume One
 

From the mentioned link in my poor English:

- informations from the early history of the a/c are very limited (Gassner and Evers only in an subordinate clause, the part of Zindel is missing complete)
- the extensive trial in Rechlin since mid of 1939 is missing complete
- many versions like the Ju 88B-3 are not explained or wrong explained
- missing explanations of cooperation between RLM, general staff and aircraft factory regarding development of versions (Why was an version developed?)
- missing informations regarding "Werkserprobung" by Junkers
- missing names: Who developed the Ju 88?, Who were the test pilots?

some of the specific errors:

p.7: the greatest German aircraft factory in 1933 was JFM, but: JFM existed only since 1936 after the fusion from Junkers Flugzeugwerke AG and Jumo Motorenbau GmbH

p.16: Junkers bought in 1936 an existing aircraft factory in Leipzig, but: Which? (For me an answer would be interesting too because I from Leipzig - ATG, Erla, Junkers? Junkers bought Junkers?)

p.26: first flight of the EF 61 V1 was roundabaout at the same time like the first flight of the Ju 88V1, but: it was 3 months later
(and his crash date of the EF 61 V1 is wrong too)

p.28/29: first flight date of Ju 88V 1 is wrong, an crash on 10.04.1937 didn't exist, confusion between V 2 and V4 on the picture, the V4 was an "Schnellbomber" and the V6 the first a/c comparable with the later serial a/c (Medcalfs story is an old Nowarra/ Green story)

p.123: Ju 88B, crashed on the Russian front, but: crashed in Birkenwerder (Germany)

p.174: Paul Kratz, "development director", but: he was director of "Ausbildungswesen" (education department ?)

and so on ...

I haven't the book from Mr. Medcalf but is the dissertation from Lutz Budrass "Flugzeugindustrie und Luftrüstung in Deutschland 1918 - 1945", 1995, about 800 pages (on the example Junkers) in the bibliography? It's the standard in Germany for understanding of processes in this industrial field and time.

And edwest ... what about learning German language? You are interested on German aircrafts, on German history and ... the German language? I am interested on Czech aircrafts and I learned read Czech language fluently, I was interested on Polish aircrafts and I learned read Polish language (not fluently but it's enough for reading texts with dictionary), the same with Dutch and Russian.

Re: Ju-88, Volume One
 

Dear All,

Even with a good collection of dictionaries, one can run into the situation of specialty descriptions and abbreviations used at a specific aircraft company or research laboratory. Then one is left to the hoped for revelations in accidentally uncovered documents that provide glossaries so that all will be able to decipher the contents of the various related reports.

Knowing who had what position can be difficult to uncover and there are always the changes that occurred over time. A person might also be known by several job titles. A job title may seem to indicate that the person held an important position when he did not. Of course, personality clashes and attempts to get the upper hand can explain otherwise inexplicable decisions.

Organization charts can be very hard to come by with all their acronyms that provide the keys to who was doing what.

Decisions at major meetings had incredibly short half lives. Whether the new direction set forth actually was put into action requires finding the subsequent action documents.

And, of course, we just don't have everything. Someone like Peter may have privy to information that wasn't available to Art and vice versa. Collecting information is a hit or miss thing. A gem might be uncovered in the unlikeliest of places with, upon retrospect, no discernable path to discover its existence being available.

Further, not everything in archives is indexed and documents that are may be indexed very poorly, hiding the fact that key information lies there-in.

The analogy I've always used in describing my hobby pursuit is as follows: Imagine that you have a jigsaw puzzle. There are no edge pieces. A lot of the other pieces are missing and you've lost the boxtop art to help guide you.

That's what we are all faced with. If we had everything and understood everything, we'd lose the thrill of the hunt. We've all had that eureka moment when something falls into place. It makes our day.

Regards,
Richard

Re: Ju-88, Volume One
 

Rasmussen: Lutz Budrass's book is listed in the bibliography. As for learning the German language, it would help if it was a logical language. It isn't.

Re: Ju-88, Volume One
 

Dear Richard,

you are correct in many points but there are mistakes unacceptable in my personal opinion because these are basics like the 1933/JFM - mistake or the 1936/Leipzig - mistake or the ATG - mistake from p.15 (it's not the "Allgemeine Transportmaschinen GmbH" but the "Allgemeine Transportanlagen GmbH") and it had nothing to do with informations available only Peter.

Dear Jukka,

if I have a look in Hannu Valtonens book "Bf 109 ja saksan sotatalous" I would say the same ;-) .

Greetings
Rasmussen

Re: Ju-88, Volume One
 

Compared to ... ?

Re: Ju-88, Volume One
 

Compared to Finnish (that has no genders for words, no articles, every single alphabet carries one pronunciation regardless of letter combinations, stress on first syllable without any exceptions, no prepositions, especially not irrationalities like ohne and mit requiring different form etc.).

Re: Ju-88, Volume One
 

That sounds like a proper language! A pity it has so little relationship to most others. I'd say German was logical (more so than English, which is more of a Latin-Germanic hybrid) but over-complicated with genders, adjective declensions etc. (very like Latin). German pronunciation is one of the easiest parts, I think - the rules are much simpler than for English.

Re: Ju-88, Volume One
 

I think that the discussion is drifting away here - even if linguistics is one of my interests. I have just received the book and it LOOKS and feels very nice. I have not read it yet, but when just looking at the first chapters I was much disappointed by the mishmash of (old) photos of Junkers (and other types) without any apparent connection and little relation to the subject. When I read Peters thorough list of just a few of the mistakes I started to regret that I spent my money.

Right at this moment I happen to read the following sentence on page 11: “Trainers and lightplanes built during this period included the 1923 T 23 (Trainer 23), 1925 T 26 and 1930 A 50 (Austauchflugzeug 50 - Exchange aircraft 50), i e, an aircraft which could exchange roles, for example, commercial to military).”

Excuse me, but this is rubbish. Why would Junkers use the English word for trainer and the thing with the exchange aircraft is pure fabrication/fiction.

And then it goes on in the following column: I read that the J 22 was built at Fili, which it was not, even if that was the plan, but the J 20 was (not mentioned), and then the “A 25 and A 35” were built there “in small numbers”. The J 25 (H 25) was just a project and neither this, nor the A 35 were built at Fili.

When a book on an historical subject is published the author has a responsibility. It should be as close to the truth as possible. If there are thing you do not know, then that should be stated. If there are things that are doubtful, that should be stated. Historical books must be based on archive research and there is no way around that. That costs money, time and patience (and some language skills). Still, you always have to use some information from published sources, but you have to check thoroughly if the literature and/or webpages that you use are reliable or not (You will still end up with some “facts” that later prove to be wrong in your text).

Of course, everyone is free to write whatever he wants to, but the problem with books on German aviation is that certain authors (there are both the German and the English-speaking kind) have flooded the market with books that have created a “thousand lies” that are almost impossible to get rid of once they have become established. We should do everything to counter this. German aviation history need well-researched and thorough articles and books that tell the truth and does away with all the myths. Now and then this happens in Germany, mostly in the form of articles, but unfortunately not much of this trickles down to the outside world. Often the true facts are there, but instead the myths are reiterated.

I will now read the book with a generous mind, but judging from what I have already seen I am afraid that this book will end up on the Nowarra shelf…

Lennart A

Re: Ju-88, Volume One
 

you're implying that Medcalf hasn't done any of these things. Everybody else is telling me he has. By this stage I was getting slightly concerned, I haven't read the book as closely as you or Achs appears to have, but Medcalf's book sure looks and feels very nice. I have now read Achs "review", although he didn't have the courtesy (or the ability..) to publish it in English, but I needn't have worried. Peter Achs co-authored a very good book on the Fw 191 and B-bomber programme, but it hasn't been translated and I doubt that it ever will be. That however is no excuse for the terrible arrogance towards Anglo-american writers in this field- writers whose works of course are read, especially Creek - who, as I keep trying to point out to Achs and as Nick states - is more German than the average Anglo-american. Achs' claim that only Germans can write about German aircraft is utter rubbish (as I'm sure you yourself would agree..), as is his claim that 'English-American' research into the Luftwaffe is still stuck in the 60s and 70s. These remarks are so stupid I don't even feel the need to 'counter' them with illustration. Aside from a relatively small selection of mistakes that frankly could have eluded anyone , most of his 'criticism' of Medcalf's work focuses on a number of German language typos. There are about 15-20 of them over the course of a densely-printed 328-page A-4 work. Achs takes great pleasure in showing us all how a small typo completely alters the meaning in German...
eg
page 19: Reisenflugzeug statt Riesenflugzeug

.. unfortunate admittedly, but not a game-changer, especially as 99% of readers out there haven't a clue what the difference is or could even spot it .. almost inconsequential for the English-language readership for which this book was intended. Obviously not 100% accurate if you're German or know German but, still, minor typos all the same...and of course most Germans make these sorts of mistakes too, as at least one respondent points out to Achs on flugzeugforum.de

no, I don't think an aeronautical engineer who has spent the best part of a life-time researching a foreign aircraft type warrants the level of criticism he gets from Achs because he can't write German like a native....

and yes, the Ju 88 family was developed under the Nazi regime, if you want to get into that discussion Herr Achs...

Re: Ju-88, Volume One
 

... then you didn't understood his review or you ignore his intention deliberate ... the typos are an illustration not more not less

Re: Ju-88, Volume One
 

Oh I understand his review alright ..

" Darüber hinaus ist das Buch ein Motivationsschub, es selber besser zu machen und endlich mit dem eigenen Werk in die Gänge zu kommen"

" ..Medcalf's book moreover will spur me on to do better and finally get going with my own Ju 88 book..."

Good luck with that.

Re: Ju-88, Volume One
 

But do we read in a book on e.g. the P-51 that it was designed and built by a Democrat regime? Or that it was a tool of the Rooseveltian ideology? No, we don't.