Koldunov victory list
 

A Russian source gives him 43+1 Victories rather than the 46+1 usually listed. Is the difference the 3 P-38 claims made for him on 7/11/44?

regards

Keith

Re: Koldunov victory list
 

hi,
i think these 43+1 are the claims known:

http://airaces.narod.ru/all1/koldunov.htm

I hope someone helps you more...
regards

Re: Koldunov victory list
 

Thanks chum,

Actually that's where I got my list from. I am guessing the P-38 victories are an unofficial add-on by a later historian. Perhaps during the cold war period.

regards

Keith

Re: Koldunov victory list
 

OK, I'm going to ask a stupid question: how could he claim 3 x P-38s in WWII, or in the Cold War period since, I think, the VVS never met P-38s in a combat situation?

Re: Koldunov victory list
 

Never met???? Most famous friendly fire between VVS and P-38s is November 7, 1944 over Yugoslavia with several casualties... A well known story....

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showth...hlight=2715396

Re: Koldunov victory list
 

Mikhail Bykov's book on Soviet aces has 46 + 1 with beside it [43 + 1] so I guess one might have been accepted in the "cold war" period and one during the actual war. It has 412 combat sorties and 96 air battles if you need that.

Re: Koldunov victory list
 

OK, Gabor, mea culpa ! I wonder if the VVS attack was a revenge attack?

Re: Koldunov victory list
 

No! It was defense action as (#^%$&@!^%#*(&) Americans attacked soviet convoy killing a Russian General, etc., ignoring all warning signs... They had no other choice to stop their friendly fire.

Re: Koldunov victory list
 

Thanks chaps,

I looked at the Bykov book this morning at the National Library and while it's a great step forward it seems to have quite a lot of facts that are contradicted by other sources. I am still going to get myself a copy however ;-)

I couldn't see any obvious candidates for the missing 3 kills so until they turn up I am going to assume 43+1. What I would say is that some sources have him on 20-22 victories when he has just 19+1 so it could just be adding a total to another incorrect total?

regards

Keith

Re: Koldunov victory list
 

Keith, I don't know which copy they had at the National Library but don't get the 2007 copy. The updated one for 2008 has the Soviet aces with five victories and more. Also a list of aces that made that status with shared victories listed in the back.

Re: Koldunov victory list
 

Keith, 43+1 victories were extracted directly from the operational documents of 866 and 659 IAP. However, those documents may be incomplete and this is the reason of discrepancy. 46+1 come from the resumptive documents (such as flightbooks, award presentation documents etc.) which contain no claim details but simply a total figures.

I would say, it is all about human factor and bureaucracy...

Regards,
Maksim

Re: Koldunov victory list
 

Once again, friends I am in your debt. The national library is indeed the older one, I will make sure I buy the 2nd edition.

salut

Keith

Re: Koldunov victory list
 

Good evening Gentlemen,

you find the full list of Koldunov's 46,5 kills here:
http://soviet-aces-1936-53.ru/abc/k/koldunov.htm

Can you tell me how many of his first 13 kills were scored in the Yak-1 and how many in the Yak-7 ?

Cheers,

Michael

Re: Koldunov victory list
 

The book "Forgotten Fifteenth" by Barrett Tillman dicusses this incident.

Re: Koldunov victory list
 

Koldunov scored his Ju 88 claim on October 18, 1944 in his Saratov-built Yak-3, c/n: 1711 (1729211), which was still in 17 VA, 288 IAD service on July 1, 1945.
Gabor

Re: Koldunov victory list
 

For Koldunov 46+1 kills are listed here:
http://soviet-aces-1936-53.ru/abc/k/koldunov.htm
whereas only 43+1 kills are listed here:
http://airaces.narod.ru/all1/koldunov.htm
Alledgedly he shot down 3 P-38's.

For Koshedub 64 kills are listed here:
http://soviet-aces-1936-53.ru/abc/k/kozhedub.htm
whereas his La-7 in Monino shows only 62:
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A...168790698).jpg
Alledgedly he shot down 2 P-51's.

Just an idea: may it be that the friendly fire kills were included in their totals (with different dates and types) after the Cold War had begun ?