Wasserfall EWM
 

Greetings all,

to regret I have no publication where I can find any info about the Wasserfall EWM and hope you could be able to provide any info. How many of this missiles were built, did any was of series production and during the test did any of them achieved any victory?

Cheers :)

Re: Wasserfall EWM
 

Here is a place to start.

http://www.luft46models.com/manufact...r/rwasserm.jpg

Yes, such missiles were used operationally.


New York Times, dated 5-12-1944.


"Rockets in Reich Defense

"U.S. Bomber Crews See 'Lots' of Them, Also Nazi Jet Planes

"LONDON, Dec. 4 (AP) -- The Nazis shot "baby V-2's" or anti-aircraft rockets at formations of American Flying Fortresses that attacked Mainz, one of the German rail cities pounded by the Allied air fleets today.

"'We got a lot more rockets than we we usually do,'" said Lieut. Robert Dams of Milwaukee, a bombardier.

"'The flak was light, but the Nazis mingled it with rockets which left heavy trails of bluish white smoke,'" related Lieut. David Barnett of Bromley, Ky., a navigator."


Ed

Re: Wasserfall EWM
 

Thank you very much for this info! I have just completed resin kit of this missile and some additional info are welcome :)

Re: Wasserfall EWM
 

You're welcome.



Ed

Re: Wasserfall EWM
 

There's apparent disagreement between (a) the NYT article you quote and (b) the document you link to which says that the programme was abandoned after relatively few prototypes had been launched. This page gives quite a lot of detail on the test results: http://www.luft46.com/missile/wasserfl.html. Whether any of the tests were against a real target, who knows?

In "German Aircraft of the Second World War" by J.R. Smith, A.L. Kay and E.J. Creek (Putnam, 1972, ISBN 0 370 00024 2) they say that "about 35" were launched in trials and that production was due to begin in October 1945.

As you once posted here long ago, another rocket, the Flakwerfer 44 Föhngerät, was deployed operationally (e.g. at Remagen) but that was a small-calibre weapon, not a big liquid-fuelled missile. Smith, Kay and Creek mention that 600 rounds of the unguided EMW Taifun were completed but there was no information about any use.

Re: Wasserfall EWM
 

I know that site but no idea about this info above, possible or not?

Re: Wasserfall EWM
 

If such a "decisive victory" was ever achieved then the Allies would have noticed it and surely it would be evident from USAAF or RAF records and from the various histories written since the war.

Re: Wasserfall EWM
 

Thank you Nick, I was a bit doubtful about info.

Re: Wasserfall EWM
 

Hi Nick,


I'm going to stick with the story. If named officers saw what they saw, I see no reason to make it up. It appears the W5 was the culprit. And reports could just state "destroyed by flak." Bad enough the Germans put the V-1 and V-2 together. A smaller, mobile anti-aircraft rocket would have been as tough as a V-2 to shoot down.



Ed

Re: Wasserfall EWM
 

This will be interesting to follow in future and hope new clear data will be raise up :)

Re: Wasserfall EWM
 

Ed: I would not put too much credence to what pilots "saw", especially when it came to the more exotic stuff. How many times have we seen pilots report aircraft that were months away from actual use? On top of that, there's always the 102 claims from the first raid on Lille, when only 2 were damaged. Pilots see a lot of things in the air.;)

Re: Wasserfall EWM
 

John,


I understand. Had this been a one-time incident, I'd be more inclined to doubt but apparently, the officers mentioned knew the difference between a flak shell and something larger. And the Office of War Information had issued guidelines to newspapers about wartime reporting. To me, it is credible to view the article in the following light: multiple sightings means multiple witnesses will be talking about this after the war, so it was reported.

I was incredulous when I heard about the LiSpr80, Lichtsprechgerät 80/80.

Communicating using light?

Re: Wasserfall EWM
 

If the Wasserfall was used operationally then it would have been necessary to constitute a parent Flakabteilung or Regiment, as was done with the V-1. Each launch site used (I believe) two radars, a command post, a generator and radio gear. In that case it should be possible to identify the Abteilungen concerned and possibly their commanders. The radars and other equipment are likely to have been found by Allied Technical Intelligence teams, even if wrecked by their owners. Failing that, personnel associated with the programme

If Allied bombers were on the receiving end, then I would expect there to be mission reports and associated intelligence assessments. The rough location of launch sites would have been known and the likelihood is that a photo-reconnaissance search would have ensued. A quick look at the National Archives catalogue shows Wasserfall files apparently opened in January 1944, so the weapon was clearly an intelligence target.

Given all that, how likely is it that a major development like the use of a guided AA rocket would have missed by historians?

Re: Wasserfall EWM
 

In the excellent but politely dismissed book, T-Force by Sean Longden (ISBN 978-1-84529-727-5), I must have one hundred yellow post-it tags throughout the book. The author identifies "Ken Moore who fought in Normandy with the Royal Artillery before being posted to the 5th Battalion of the King's Regiment, which formed part of the infantry element of T-Force." This gentlemen provided the author "with a vast number of documents" and access to veterans of the unit. He then states his book would examine a subject "that, if I did not write it now, would be lost forever." The group would operate with 30AU, or 30 Assault Unit, later renamed 30 Advance Unit.

One thing worth noting was the looting of captured documents by unidentified British troops. Then there was the incident where little information could be obtained about a German aircraft-delivered torpedo at Houilles because "... the Germans had eliminated all Frenchman known to have any access to it." and Frenchmen who had been working for the Germans were killed or in one case, just disappeared even though he was thought to be in a jail.

Referring to targets in Paris, he writes of "... French scientists who were believed to have played a role in the development of the next generation of German rockets, the so-called V3."

Cologne. "To the north of the city, 30AU captured an 'opportunity target' which was not on the 'black-lists' but was a source of vast intelligence. The factory was producing equipment for use in guided rocket systems, jet- and rocket-propelled aircraft, and chemical fuels." "Just ten days after the operation the Admiralty produced a 300-page book of translations of the seized documents."

"Elsewhere, they arrived at targets only to discover the relevant technolgy had already been spirited away in what Pennycook later described as 'semi-piratical expeditions.'"

"Pitt-Pladdy and 13 Platoon were examining the Wolff shotgun factory, which had been used for making V2 rocket propellant and a product named 'DIGL', a substitute for nitroglycerine..."

"Even more than 60 years after the end of the Second World War, some of the documentation related to T-Force operations in the second half of 1945 remains classified."

"The 'Waterfall' rocket, which had been designed in Germany for anti-aircraft use, played a significant role in future American projects, leading directly to the development of the American Hermes-A1 missile."



Ed

Re: Wasserfall EWM
 

Nick- as I could seen on one archive movie, missile was visually guided by operator to lacking of the radars could not mean much. For the operation, Waserfall need concrete square with hole under it, how many places like that was found and is there any else way of launching but this only know to me?