B-25 used by VVS as night bomber?
 

I have read several accounts of this, but were there actual Night Bomber regiments of B-25, or as intruders? and when did they begin operating? I know that ZuSayn-Wittgenstein made several claims in 1943.

regards

Keith

Re: B-25 used by VVS as night bomber?
 

Yes, soviet B-25s were regularly used for night bombing and supply drop purposes in 1944-45. One of their most famous mission-series was the supply drop missions over Yugoslavia for Tito partizans with several losses in 1944: 42-87490 red '2', 42-32474 red '12', 43-3507 red '4', etc.

18 VA also used 14., 238., 251. GvBAPs for night bombings over Hungary and Austria in 1945...

Sample from their long 1944-45 plane lists and reports:

B-25 S/N, markings, assigned pilot:

…813 - red '87' - Прончатов
…526 - red '88' - Жариков
…240 - red '89' - Сафонов
…535 - red '90' - Букин
…014 - red '91' - Саденков
…997 - red '99' - Десятов

A long story. Cheers,

Gabor

Re: B-25 used by VVS as night bomber?
 

Cheers Gabor,

After a lifetime concentrating on the Western Front I am dipping my toe in the Eastern now that there are more sources available. I have many more questions than answers at the moment ;-)

regards


Keith

Re: B-25 used by VVS as night bomber?
 

Hello Keith
some info on B-25s in Soviet service
http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/englis...tkin/index.htm


Juha

Re: B-25 used by VVS as night bomber?
 

An updated extract from my book Red Stars 4 - Lend-lease Aircraft in USSR (co-authored with G.F. Petrov), Apali 2002:

North American B-25 Mitchell in USSR

In late August 1941 a prestigious Soviet AF delegation arrived by two GST flying boats via Alaska in USA for study and selection of much demanded heavy bombers to be delivered to USSR. The delegation led by the test pilot M.M.Gromov was prepared to ferry the selected aircraft back to USSR as soon as possible. Their first preference was the B-17 (which was absolutely refused by the Americans). On 16 September 1941 the Soviets agreed to three B-26 Marauders and two B-25B Mitchells, after rejecting the B-25A because of insufficient defensive armament. Two weeks later the Soviets finally settled for five B-25Bs (to which the B-26 was considered to be inferior). Before delivery of the B-25B installation of additional de-icing equipment was requested. (American accounts stress the difficult negotiations with the Soviets who repeatedly changed their preferences and presented requests for additional modifications, equipment and spares.)

As the range of the B-25B was considered insufficient for the long ferry flight to Russia, the first two B-25B were shipped out of USA 6 November 1941, and arrived in Murmansk 20 December on board convoy PQ-6. Only on 5 March 1942 both aircraft arrived in Moscow. One of the first B-25B served later as personal transport of I.P.Mazuruk, C.O. of 1 PIAD, with both red stars and semi-civil code "URSS".

Major deliveries of Mitchells commenced in spring 1942 via Abadan, Iran. The first operational Mitchells were allocated to 37 BAP of 222 BAD, and soon also the other two regiments, 16 and 125 BAP of this division were equipped with Mitchells. At first this division belonged to the short-lived 1 BAA (Bomber Aviation Army), but in July 1942 the division became part of the Reserve of the Supreme Command (RBGK). After rather heavy initial losses, the - in Soviet eyes - rather big Mitchell bomber was considered more suitable for night operations, and in 29 September 1942 222 BAD was transferred to ADD. In order to ensure the range required by ADD, additional fuel tanks were installed. Late autumn 1942 a continuous flow of Mitchells arrived via the ALSIB-route, enabling expansion of the 222 BAD (which meanwhile, 26 March 1943 had been elevated to 4 GAD) into the 4th Aviation Corps (4 GAK) on 3 July 1943. 4 GAK became the main Soviet Mitchell-operator, consisting of two divisions, 4 and 5 GAD, with two regiments each. In winter 1943-44 a third regiment were added to the ADD divisions. Consequently a detached regiment, 113 AP NOB (which on 10 January 1944 became 27 GAP NOB, and which was mainly equipped with heavy A-20G Boston night-fighters in addition to Mitchells) was also added to the structure of 4 GAK.

4 GAK participated in almost all major operations of the Red Army in 1943-1945, and played also a significant role in the strategic bombing attacks against Helsinki in February 1944. In autumn 1944 5 GAD supported the capture of Belgrad, and five pilots from this division were decorated as Heroes of Yugoslavia.

In autumn 1944 ADD supported the Slovakian uprising with an air bridge consisting of Li-2, C-47 and B-25 Mitchell aircraft. B-25s of 4 GAK dropped supplies to the Tri Duby airfield in central Slovakia from the night of 4/5 September 1944. In the night of 26/27 September the Mitchells were joined by Li-2s and C-47s of 5 AK (see Li-2/C-47 section). 4 GAK performed a total of 498 missions (of which 352 successful) with B-25 bombers, transporting 253 tons of arms and ammunition to the insurgents for the loss of of one aircraft before Tri Duby had to be evacuated.

All other ADD aviation corpses (except 2 GAK) used also smaller numbers of Mitchells. In early 1944 Mitchells amounted to approx. 10 % of all ADD aircraft, and on 1 January 1945 ADD-successor 18th Air Army had 320 Mitchells, or about one fifth of its total strength. (After the reorganisation of ADD as 18th Air Army on 6 December 1944, the ADD Guards regiments and divisions were renumbered in order to "fit" into the VVS numbering scheme.)

Main Soviet modifications requested by ADD included additional integral wing tanks (capacity 1.140 litres), and increased internal bomb-carrying capacity (one FAB-500 and two FAB-250 bombs) in addition to two FAB-250 bombs attached to under-wing bomb racks (compared to original under-wing capacity of eight American 300 pound bombs).

At the end of the war a number of Mitchells equipped with S-1 autopilots and Norden M-9 bombsights were also delivered to Russia (the top-secret and restricted Norden system had for a long time been on the top of the Soviet “want list”). As a big number of German Lotfe-7 systems were captured in East Germany possible replacement of the Norden bombsights with Lotfe-7 equipment was studied in late 1945 (obviously because of lack of spares for the US equipment), however resulting in directional instability of the aircraft.

Mitchells performed also long-range recce tasks in various VVS and naval regiments. In particular the strategic recce regiments of the Soviet Supreme Command 48 GDRAP (ex 40 DRAP) and 98 GDRAP (ex 4 DRAP) used a number of specially equipped Mitchells.

A number of force-landed USAAF Mitchells were taken over by 128 SAD in the Far East. The first Mitchell interned at Vladivostok was B-25B 40-2242, which had participated in the legendary Doolittle Raid to Tokio 18 April 1942.

On 12 September 1942 a total of seven US bombers, apparently five B-25 Mitchells and two B-24 Liberators landed at Yelizovo, Kamchatka. The B-25 Mitchells were led by Major Richard de Syuge, and included B-25C-10-NA 42-53352 piloted by Lt. Rodgen. 51 American aviators were interned, and the aircraft detained.

Although considerable numbers of lend-lease aircraft were destroyed 1945-47 under the supervision of American inspectors, Mitchell bombers were nevertheless extensively used for several years after the war. Eg. the Bobrujsk-based 330 BAP used Mitchells from 1946 until conversion to Tu-4s started in 1949, the Sakhalin-based 132 BAP converted from Tu-2s to B-25J Mitchells in 1950, and a Kamchatka-based regiment operated Mitchells still in 1953. In the early 1950s the test-pilots school (Shkola letchikov-ispytatelej) at Kratovo (now Zhukovskiy) had still a number of B-25 Mitchells in its inventory. As late as 1951 the Dal´nyaya Aviatsiya-regiment 121 GTAP converted to recce-modified B-25 Mitchells, the regiment simultaneously receiving the denomination 121 GODRAP (121 Guards Detached Long-Range Recconnaissance Aviation Regiment). 121 GODRAP used B-25s until 1953 when new Tu-4s were received.

Because of the good piloting characteristics and strong structure permitting extensive modifications the Mitchell was a very popular test-bed for various R&D projects in the late 1940s, including
- flight testing of early jet engines (eg. the Jumo 003-copy RD-10F), and D-5 and D-6 ram-jets,
- development of air-to-air tanking methods,
- testing of rocket-assisted take-off with “93-1” powder and SU-1500 liquid rockets,
- catapult experiments,
- testing of the ejectable pilot capsule of the experimental German rocket aircraft “346” at LII in 1948,
- development of Shchuka gliding torpedos at Yevpatoriya in 1947-1948 etc.

A number of these experimental Mitchell modifications are illustrated in the pictorial section, but it seems that this interesting aspect of the Mitchell-history in Russia is still insufficiently documented.

Several Mitchells were also converted to VIP-transports (users including NII VVS, C.O. of Naval Air Forces, Ministry of Fishing etc.). After the war some demilitarised Mitchells were also entered into the civil register and used eg. as courier aircraft by 2 AD GVF and as VIP-passenger aircraft.

A total of 877 Mitchells of various subtypes were received in USSR (another nine were lost in transit).

1 January 1945 the inventory of 18 Air Army (ex-ADD) included 291 B-25 Mitchells, of which 252 remained 12 June 1946 in the inventory of Dal’nyaya aviatsiya (DA).


Identified B-25 operators:

VVS VMF:

VVS SF: 118 ORAP (ca 1945)

VVS KBF: 15 ORAP (1944-)

VVS TOF: 2 MTAD (1945-), 50 RAP (1945-), 14 OAO (1945-), 35 OBAE (1945-)

VVS VMF: 65 AP ON

18 VA/ADD:

- 1 GAK:
- 1 GAD: 2 GAP (ex 748 AP)

- 3 GAK:
- 50 BAD: 26 GAP (March 1945-), 111 BAD (may 1945)

- 4 GAK:
- 14 GBAD (ex 4 GAD, ex 222 BAD; July 1942-): 198 GBAP (ex 15 GAP, ex 125 BAP; summer 1942-), 199 GAP NOB (ex 27 GAP NOB, ex 113 AP NOB; Oct 1943-), 229 GBAP (ex 13 GAP, ex 37 BAP; April 1942-) and 250 GBAP (ex 34 GAP, ex 335 AP; March 1944-)

- 15 GBAD (ex 5 GAD; Sept 1943-): 201 GBAP (ex 14 GAP, ex 16 BAP; March 1943-), 238 GBAP (ex 22 GAP, ex 747 BAP; 1942-), 251 GBAP (ex 35 GAP DD, ex 337 AP DD; March 1944-)

- 341 OBAP (Sept 1944-)

- 7 AK:
- 1 AD:101 AP (weather recce a/c)

- 45 AD: 25 GAP (1944-), 362 BAP (1944-), 890 BAP (1944-)

VVS:

- 7 VA: 118 ORAE (Kolezhma, spring 1943-)

- 128 SAD: 903 BAP (Kamchatka, 1945)

- 48 GDRAP GK KA (ex 40 DRAP GK KA; 1942-), 98 GDRAP GVK (ex 4 DRAP GVK), 396 OAP ON

GVF:
- 3 OADS (1945)

Identified post-war B-25 operators:

DA:

3 GBAK 1 VA:
- 22 GBAD (Bobrujsk 1946):
- 111 BAP (1946)
- 200 GBAP (ex 26 GAP, Bobrujsk 1945-1949)
- 210 GBAP (1946)
- 330 BAP (1946)
- 45 TBAD (Balbasovo 1945-)
- 52 GTBAP (Balbasovo 1945-1949)
- 362 BAP (1945-)
- 890 BAP (1945)

- 121 GODRAP (Novyzbkov, Bryanskaya oblast´; Machulishche, Minsk 1951-1953)
- 158 GBAP (Belogorsk 1950-)
- 182 GTBAP (Sept. 1949-1950)
- 184 GBAP (Priluki, -1949)
- 201 GBAP (Poltava, -1950)
- 203 GTBAP (Balbasovo 1945-)
- 251 GBAP (1944-1950)
- 290 ODRAP (Kujbyshevka, Amur; Novozybkov, Bryansk 1950-1952, Zyabrovka, Gomel´ 1952-1953)

- 24 BAP (Oranienburg Apr-Dec 1951)
- 132 BAP (Kiton, Sakhalin, 1950-)
- 444 TBAP (Pozdeyevka, Primorsk; June 1951-)

- 153 OAAerofotE (Irkutsk; May 1946-), see AiK 4/2005, p. 1

- 14 AD (Poltava, -1950)
- subordinated units?

n SAK (Kamchatka, -1953),
(note: postwar DA organization is still very unclear)

VVS VMF
- 65 AP ON VMF (B-25J, Izmajlovo, Moscow)

ShLI (Shkola letchikov-ispytatelej), Kratovo

Civil operators:
GVF
- 2 AD Svyazi (Myachkovo)
GUSMP (Polarnaya aviatsiya)
GUGMP (MVD, Gulag)
GUGMS

GUGK

Dal´stroj MVD
MAP
Mingeologii
Minrybprom

Re: B-25 used by VVS as night bomber?
 

Has anyone experience with B-25 losses of the VVS? Maybe over Hungary/Austria/Ex Yugoslav area? - Kurtl

Re: B-25 used by VVS as night bomber?
 

Gabor

To my knowledge there were several successful and unsuccessful Tito's partizans support missions one of which was on Aug 25,44 from Balti over Yugoslavia ending up in Bari perfomed
with A-20's from 861st BAP ... The mission was led by Mihail Nyuhitikov ....what are the other dates reffering to B-25's losses and from what airfields they took off ?

Re: B-25 used by VVS as night bomber?
 

There were too many missions after March, 1944 to list, but they lost (14, 22 GvAP DD & 337 AP DD) B-25 Mitchells eg. on:

May 11/12, 1944
June 10/11, 1944
August 9/10, 1944
August 10/11, 1944
August 15/16, 1944
August 21/22, 1944
August 26/27, 1944
September 20/21, 1944, etc...

Usually they took off from Kalinovka. I hope this helps.

Gabor

Re: B-25 used by VVS as night bomber?
 

Thanks Gabor, do you have any crew details on the 26/27 Aug mission ?

Re: B-25 used by VVS as night bomber?
 

гв.л-т Головатенко Андрей Васильевич
гв.мл.л-т Гаврилов Марк Павлович
гв.л-т Федоров Иван Иванович
ст.л-т Хрин Егор Сергеевич
гв.с-а Айвозян Арам Леонтьевич
гв.ст.с-т Балашов Валентин Александрович

Re: B-25 used by VVS as night bomber?
 

Thanks Gabor, any idea of the airfield of departure ? The previous day mission was escorted from Balti by several YAK-9DD flew and along with the A-20 have all landed
safely at Bari.

Re: B-25 used by VVS as night bomber?
 

I assume Kalinovka. These VVS B-25s had no business in Italy. Regular missions from Ukraine to Yugoslavia, supply and/or agent drops. Downed at Zombor-S, 30-40 km by NJG fighter. Only survivor was гв.л-т Федоров Иван Иванович who tried to reach partisans, but got captured. Later escaped and returned:

"Прошел рубеж 1 (River Tisza?) в 21:43 Федоров - сбиты ИА в 30-40 км южнее Самбор. Выпрыгнул с парашютом с малой высоты, потерял сознание. Очнулся в сарае без орденов и документов. Пытался пробраться к партизанам, попал в плен, где был с 1.9. по 21.12.1944. Бежал из плена с другими летчиками из ВВС, 25.12.1944 перешел линию фронта. 28.1.45 назначен на ту же должность."

Gabor

Re: B-25 used by VVS as night bomber?
 

Gabor correct you are, though I didn't state that B-25's ever ended up in Italy ,what I stated is that on Aug 25,44 the A-20's from 861st BAP flew out of Balti escorted by YAK-9DD's successfully dropped supplies to Tito's partizans and successfully landed in Bari. I was trying to understand on why they selected A-20's on Aug. 25th.

The attached crashed in Hungaria...any idea about the date or S/N, from my understanding and the info I received is correct, it originated either from Sevastopol or Kalinovka.

Re: B-25 used by VVS as night bomber?
 

Unfortunately no marking is visible... If you know either tail tactical marking, or S/N, I would be able to help. No idea here.

Gabor

Re: B-25 used by VVS as night bomber?
 

Dear all,

Very interesting thread! During the research of my new book the Nachtjagd War Diaries 2nd edition I have documented several German Nachtjagd victory claims for VVS Mitchells shot down during night fighting operations on the Eastern Front, for which I have not been able yet to identify matching Soviet Mitchell losses, perhaps some of the readers can help me with these matches:

22-23 April 1943
Hptm. H. Prinz zu Sayn-Wittgenstein: 28 Stab IV./NJG5 B-25 SE ? (Himmelbett) 00.30

3-4 May 1943
Oblt. Günter Bertram: 7 NJ Schwarm LF6 B-25C 9563/25 Ost (prob. Smolensk-Orscha area) 20.50

31 August-1 September 1943
Hptm. Rudolf Schoenert: 31 Stab I./NJG100 B-25C 25 69/35 Ost: 2.900 m. 21.01 Note: sortie from Leschtchinskaja airfield
Hptm. Rudolf Schoenert: 32 Stab I./NJG100 B-25C 25 69/35 Ost: 3.000 m. 22.21
Hptm. Rudolf Schoenert: 33 Stab I./NJG100 B-25C nr Griwa (37 75/35 Ost): 2.600 m. 22.37
Hptm. Rudolf Schoenert: 34 Stab I./NJG100 B-25C 35 87/35 Ost: 2.300 m. 23.00

6-7 September 1943
Hptm. Alois Lechner: 28 1./NJG100 B-25 S. Nikilenka/Sselzo (Sumatra 1): 1.400 m. 22.36

12-13 October 1943
Fw. Helmut Konter: 1 3./NJG100 Mitchell E. Orscha: 5.700 m. 18.39
Hptm. Alois Lechner: 32 1./NJG100 B-25 04 485 (Sumatra 1, at Stary-Bychow): 2.000 m. 20.48

9-10 March 1944
Uffz. Leunig: 1 4./NJG100 B-25 60/7/8: 5.300 m. 20.18 note: raid on Tallinn (Estonia)

27-28 June 1944
Fw. Rudolf Düding: 4 1./NJG100 B-25 Pl.Q. BN 9.2 (Himmelbett): 3.600 m. 00.27

30 June-1 July 1944
Oblt. Josef Pützkuhl: 15 3./NJG100 Mitchell NNE Pinsk (Celebes II) 23.35

7-8 July 1944
Uffz. Kolberg: 7 4./NJG100 Mitchell Pl.Q. GH 2.9 23.08 Note: claim not listed in OKL/RLM 4./NJG100 Confirmed Abschussübersicht
Lt. Klaus Scheer: 15 4./NJG100 Mitchell Biala Podlaska (GH 9.7): 150 m. 23.10

9-10 July 1944
Lt. Eberhard Kaross: 9 3./NJG100 Mitchell 32/8/1/2 (Sumatra I, based at Maleczow): 2.400 m. 23.14
Lt. Ulrich Trüber: 4 3./NJG100 Il-4/B-25 23/7/2/4: 3.900 m. 00.15 (Trüber KIA?)

24-25 August 1944
Ofw. Alfred Rahner: 1 St. I./NJG102 B-25 Pl.Q. PF 7 23.08

26-27 August 1944
- Einsatz Staffel NJG102 B-25 - 21.33 note: raid on Tilsit

7-8 October 1944
Oblt. Dieter Barth: 2 9./NJG102 B-25 SW Plumkenau 20.43

9-10 October 1944
Fw. Heidsick: 1 Einsatz Staffel Ostpreussen NJG102 B-25 Pl.Q. QE 6 20.55

22-23 December 1944
Hptm. Walter Engel: 10 3./NJG5 B-25 60 km. E. Libau (KE 4) : 4.500 m. 18.17

15-16 April 1945
Oblt. Zimmermann: 1 1./NJG100 Mitchell Pl.Q. BP 22.50 Note: sortie from Brünn airfield

20-21 April 1945
Hptm. Heinz-Martin Hadeball: 28 Stab NJGr.10 Mitchell E. Berlin 22.50

You can also reach me by PM, or my private email address:

theoboitenATgmail.com

AT = @


Cheers, Theo

Re: B-25 used by VVS as night bomber?
 

Gabor

Unfortunately no such details available .Attached a photo from the B-25 Sqd at Sevastopol of which the above acft may have belonged to.

Re: B-25 used by VVS as night bomber?
 

Will check if those regs. Had any 44-2974X, but based on markings and bombs, not supplies it' s not good....

Gabor

Re: B-25 used by VVS as night bomber?
 

agreed Gabor, thanks in any case

Re: B-25 used by VVS as night bomber?
 

Well, I still do not think so, because the necessary tail markings are missing in the photo to be a plane, participating Yugoslav supply-drop missions. Plus they did not drop bombs, only containers, supplies & agents. However, the soviets (14, 22 GvAP DD & 337 AP DD) have lost the following B-25 Mitchells during Yugoslav supply-missions that can be considered:

B-25, S/N: ...745 on April 30/May 1, 1944
B-25, S/N: ...747 on August 22/23, 1944

(B-25, S/N: ...743 was still in service on August 6 and December 11, 1944.)

Being 42974X in photo, there was no other options for ... 74X among planes flying the supply missions over Yugoslavia. I hope this helps.

Gabor

Re: B-25 used by VVS as night bomber?
 

Thanks for the info Gabor, the photo posted is depcting a B-25 from the SQD
which I presume the crashed B-25 originated from, is not the crashed aircraft
nor that was involved on drop supplies.

Best Regards

Re: B-25 used by VVS as night bomber?
 

Well, every regiment had only 3 (rarely 4) squadrons. Why do you think it was from the same (1st, 2nd, or 3rd) squadron of the same regiment? If the crashed plane was lost on a Yugoslav supply-drop mission, then it belonged to either 14, 22 GvAP DD, or 337 AP DD regiments. These whole regiments were selected to fly supply missions, no squadrons of them were retained for bombing missions while others dropped supplies! When supply missions ended over Yugoslavia, they were re-organized back to regular bomber regiments as: 14, 238, 251 GvBAPs of the new 18 VA in late 1944.

Re: B-25 used by VVS as night bomber?
 

Gabor

We talk about two different things, I talk about the crashed B-25 photo which I presume originated from Sevastopol, this specific unit was not involved on drop supplies or may have though I have no info of, why this acft crashed on Hungarian soil and why it flew there, I have no info of . You talk about drop supplies which is not related to my posted photos

Best Regards

Re: B-25 used by VVS as night bomber?
 

Oh, OK, sorry, I was confused.
Gabor

Re: B-25 used by VVS as night bomber?
 

No prob Gabor,was wondering do you have a list of VVS B-25 losses months July and August over Romania ? The crash site of the above B-25 is indicated at Szeged ...

Re: B-25 used by VVS as night bomber?
 

Never made (and not planning to make) any lists for Rumania. Most losses are just 'MIA', so I do not have reported crash sites, or at least I am not familiar with foreigner location names.

B-25s flew mainly in solo, not in formations in the dark, so usually there were no witnesses to report the area. I can check only NJG claims or ground crash reports to see if there was any loss that night.

Re: B-25 used by VVS as night bomber?
 

I am sure Szeged is wrong. Szeged is flat, no hills in the area. Men don't seem to be Hungarians either.

Re: B-25 used by VVS as night bomber?
 

Gabor my error, I meant VVS B-25 losses Hungaria, as into the uniform you rise an interesting point, is the armed guard not Hungarian ?

Re: B-25 used by VVS as night bomber?
 

Hard to see... But probably not. Hat on the man in the front is definitely not typical Hungarian. Maybe a Rumanian peasant? I would rather focus on the hills. This site is not even near Szeged, for sure! (I have lots of VVS B-25 loss data for Hungary, but none of them at Szeged.)

Re: B-25 used by VVS as night bomber?
 

Gentlemen - very interesting details!
So you might also have any info on a VVS night raid against M/Y at Wiener Neustadt and Sopron during the dark of March 29./30. 1945? One VVS aircraft was lost (6 - 7 KIA crewmembers), probably by a german nightfighter. Could that be a B-25 as well? Cheers, Kurtl

Re: B-25 used by VVS as night bomber?
 

Gentlemen, that frontal photo shows a Hungarian Caproni Ca.135, which force landed in Rumanian-held Southern Transylvania.

Re: B-25 used by VVS as night bomber?
 

Hah, this is good! Thanks Denes for clarifying! Being blind recently... ;-))))

Re: B-25 used by VVS as night bomber?
 

Kurtl,

One B-25 was shot down that night indeed: B-25 Mitchell of 18 VA, 238 GvBAP (ex-22 GvAP DD) with гв.мл.л-т Пронников Николай Федорович & гв.л-т Тиняков Анатолий Викторович, sq. commander's (KIA) crew. No info about plane S/N, but Tinyakov's personally assigned B-25 (according to December 11, 1944 ORB) was S/N:....375, tail: red '58'. I hope this helps.

Gabor

Re: B-25 used by VVS as night bomber?
 

Hi Gabor,

Thanks for confirming these details about a B-25 loss on 29-30 March 1945. There's one Nachtjagd claim for this night, an unidentified crew of II./NJG100 claimnig an 'Il-4' destroyed, unfortunately I have not been able yet to find a location & time of the victory claim.

Cheers, Theo

Re: B-25 used by VVS as night bomber?
 

If the B-25 crash site was in Transylvania, then I was wondering to which VA this acft belonged because to my knowledge 2nd, 5th and 17 VA didn't operate B-25's and this leaves the possibility open that the acft in question belonged to the presumed unit from Sevastopol which operated under 4th UK Front or was this an aircraft of the 8th VA, though this group rarely sent long range missions to Moldova, Romania or Bessarabia....however can't it exclude 100%

Re: B-25 used by VVS as night bomber?
 

Nope, this shot was not a B-25 but a similar, frontal looking Hungarian Caproni Ca-135Bis in Erdély-S. Yugoslav missions were flown by the general Long-Range Air Army (DD), not by "numbered" VAs, belonging to specific fronts.

Re: B-25 used by VVS as night bomber?
 

Gabor , yes Long Range were not attached to specific fronts, basically I don't think that B-25's were under DD groups .Ca-135 indeed , wasn't aware.

Re: B-25 used by VVS as night bomber?
 

Sure they were.... Its in their name... 14 and 22 GvAP DD, 337 AP DD.

Re: B-25 used by VVS as night bomber?
 

Thank you very much Gabor! I did not know anything about the crew at all. Do you know something about the rest of the crew or from where they took off?

Gv. Lt. Smirnov of 14. GvBAP also took part on a raid that night. Tinyakov was with the 238. GvBAP - so we know at least about two regiments airborne over Wr. Neustadt that night. Some locals report about seeing 2 waves of aircraft each of approx. 12 planes over the target area flying really low. I wonder if that was a combined raid against Wr. Neustadt and Sopron by only 14. and 238. GvBAP's. Or were there more? I don't know much about 18. VA habits...

Re: B-25 used by VVS as night bomber?
 

Sorry, late 18 VA has always been out of the centre of my research... No idea. But on March 29/3o, 1945 14. and 251. GvBAP attacked Sopron and Szombathely at the border. 238. GvBAP suffered one B-25 loss, no more details.