Claims of Italian night fighters 1940-43?
 

Does anybody know how many claims had the Italian night fighter pilots 1940-1943?

It seems to me, that about 30-50? And it's so much.

mw

Re: Claims of Italian night fighters 1940-43?
 

Here is a thread that may help:


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=18452




Ed

Re: Claims of Italian night fighters 1940-43?
 

Hello,
in the following list, some night kills by Italian fighters, from “La caccia notturna italiana 1940-1943” by G. Grande (“Storia Militare”, april 2006):
15/08/1940, Whitley V P4964, 10. Squadron RAF, damaged on Turin and crash-landed, by CR42 of an unidentified unit
16/08/1940, Whitley V N1497, 10. Squadron RAF, shot down on Turin, by CR42 of 150 Gruppo CT (pilot Graffer)
16/03/1941, Wellington R1837, 37. Squadron RAF, shot down on Tirana (Albania), by CR42 of 160 Gruppo CT (pilots Desideri and Pinna)
28/10/1941, Albacore, 828. Squadron FAA, shot down on C. Scaramia (Sicily), by CR42 of 171 Gruppo CN (pilots Desideri and Pinna)
28/10/1941, Wellington, 104. Squadron RAF, shot down on Naples by CR42 of 376^ Squadriglia Autonoma CT (pilots Parmeggiani and Calafiore)
5/12/1941, Wellington R1066, 40. Squadron RAF, shot down on Naples by CR42 of 21. Gruppo CT (pilot Patriarca)
23/10/1942, Lancaster I R5566, shot down by CR42 of 13. Gruppo CT (pilot Catania)
21/11/1942, Halifax DT571, 76. Squadron RAF, shot down on Turin by CR42 of 59. Gruppo CN (pilot Scagliarini)
17/07/1943, Lancaster III DV183, 207. Squadron RAF, shot down on Northern Italy, by Do217J1 of 60. Gruppo CN (pilot Ammannato)
17/07/1943, Lancaster III ED538, 467. Squadron RAF, damaged on Northern Italy, by Do217J1 of 60. Gruppo CN (pilot De Michelis), crash-landed at Blida (Algeria) and written-off
Please note that CT stands for Caccia Terrestre (Day Fighters) and CN stands for Caccia Notturna (night fighters): the only successfull night fighters up to 1943 were the old biplanes Fiat CR42 (other types used, apart from 12-14 Do217J and 3 Me110, were Caproni F5 and Reggiane 2001CN).

Hope this helps

Fabrizio

Re: Claims of Italian night fighters 1940-43?
 

Thanks for this information, :-)
mw

Re: Claims of Italian night fighters 1940-43?
 

This was a/c 'K' of No. 40 Squadron, crew:

Pilot: P/O Hutt
2nd Pilot: P/O Miller
Navigator: P/O Pyle
Wireless Operator: Sgt. Poole
Front Gunner: Sgt. Arferault
Rear Gunner: Sgt. Abbott.

All the best

Andreas

Re: Claims of Italian night fighters 1940-43?
 

I have to make a correction about the Albacore of 828. Sqn FAA, for which the pilot, who shot down it, is not known to me ("Desideri and Pinna", as indicated, is the consequence of a "cut & paste" operation...).
According to "Bombardate l'Italia" (by Gioannini and Massobrio, 2007), page 514, a Halifax was claimed by Ten. Balli (233^ Squadriglia/59. Gruppo CN) with a Re2001CN (i.e. the version with two 20 mm-Mauser in underwing pods) on the night on August, 17th, 1943.
Regards

Fabrizio

Re: Claims of Italian night fighters 1940-43?
 

By the way, does anyone know what became of the crew of Wellington R1066?

All the best

Andreas

Re: Claims of Italian night fighters 1940-43?
 

Pilots F/O D F Hutt and P/O I E Miller survived as PoWs, others KiA. CR42 pilot given as Mar V Patriarcha Ottaviano.

Source: Gunby's & Temple's RAF Bomber Losses in the Middle East and Mediterranean.

Re: Claims of Italian night fighters 1940-43?
 

Thanks!

All the best

Andreas

Re: Claims of Italian night fighters 1940-43?
 

Albacore of 828. Sqn FAA was claimed by CR.42 of 301a Sq. CN (171o Gruppo CN), second place of the victory was over Comiso. The commander of 301a Sq was capitano Carlo Miani and the commander of 171o Gruppo Autonomo Caccia Notturna (301a, 302a Squadriglia CN) was maggiore Giovanni Buffa. 302a Sq was never activated. Whole unit between 25 October 1941 and 18 December 1941 had claimed 4 probably victories and only one could be confirmed – this Albacore. There were only a few CR.42 CN (no more then 3) most were standard CR.42.


mw

Re: Claims of Italian night fighters 1940-43?
 

Ciao,
some additional claims:

Wellingtons of 148 Sqn. attacked Tripoli late afternoon of 7-8 December 1940 ( it was already dark, however).

T2838 R was heavily damaged and DBR after a crash-landing in Luqa, another Wellington (that of Sqn. Ldr. Foss) was heavily damaged and crash-landed at base. Apparently this plane was later recovered.

Two Italian CR 42 pilots claimed the Wellingtons: one was Serg. Vito Rinaldi and the other I'm presently not able to find out, but I have somewhere the name.
Rinaldi later went to 301 Squadriglia were he claimed a damaged (or probable) Blenheim the night of 7 December 1941.

Wellselys of 223 attacked the base of Gura (Eritrea) the night 15-16 December 1940. CR 42s damaged two of them. L2690V crash-landed on return to base and was DBR. It is highly likely that the victory was claimed by Ten. Mario Visintini.

The name of Patriarca was Vincent Joseph. He was a SCW veteran of American origins being born in New York in 1914. Ottaviano is possibly the place near Naples where the bomber fell.

There are more CR 42 night claims in North Africa that are matched by RAF losses, I'll add them later.

Ludovico

Re: Claims of Italian night fighters 1940-43?
 

Tenente Giulio Reiner shot down over Fuka Wellington from 40 Squadron RAF at night from 25 to 26 August 1942, he flew out on a standard CR.42 borrowed from 101o Gruppo.

mw

Re: Claims of Italian night fighters 1940-43?
 

Hello,

Some minor input.

I think P4965 (obs not 4964) was claimed by Graffer at 01:55- on 14 August 1940.
I don't have any name on the claimant on 16 August 1940.

The second pilot on 16 March 1941 is Penna (not Pinna) (see http://surfcity.kund.dalnet.se/italy_penna.htm)

A couple of questions:
Is there anyone with first names on the Italian pilots on the following dates:
28/10/41 Parmeggiani and Calafiore (is it Parmeggiani or Parmiggiani?)
23/10/42 Catania (could this be Carmelo Catania - he served in the 13o Gruppo in 1940?)

Best wishes/Håkan

Re: Claims of Italian night fighters 1940-43?
 

Amedeo Parmeggiani

Marcello Calafiore

ciao

Gianandrea

Re: Claims of Italian night fighters 1940-43?
 

Grazie Gianandrea!

//Håkan

Re: Claims of Italian night fighters 1940-43?
 

ciao,
the pilot claiming with Serg. Vito Rinaldi on 7 Devember 1940 was S.Ten. Francesco De Seta.

The night of 2/3 November 1941, over Tripoli Ten. Egisto Andalò of 154 Squadriglia 3° Gruppo C.T. claimed Wellington IC X9763/U of 40 Squadron

The night 5/6 November 1941, over Tripoli, pilots of 3° Gruppo claimed three probable victories over Wellintons ( not corroborated by RAF records).

Andalò claimed another Wellington the night of 28 March 1942, possibly the Mk.II coded Z8337/P

At 22.30 on 31 May 1942, Ten. Renato Talamini of 80 Squadriglia 17° Gruppo 1° Stormo claimed a Wellington over Derna. 148 Squadron lost two planes the same night and Bf 110 nightfighters claimed one so one should be the victim of Talamini.

All the above victories were claimed on CR 42s.

Ludovico

Re: Claims of Italian night fighters 1940-43?
 

Thanks Ludovico!
Nice info!

Best wishes/Håkan