Sonderstaffel 172
 

That unit flew around April 1941 on the Med.Front code 4V+.R code of the KGr.zbv106 , among their planes flew also the BG+ZO nd BG+ZL described as special planes , coming from Germany, they are all coming from Ge. for sure but these maybe a bit more !!!, who is aware of anything about that unit nd these spec. planes,
The BG+ZO was shot down with 2 others 4V+CL /4V+AL on 20.April 41 200 km N Bengasi, known losses , the Wn of the BG+ZO is 7167, the planes was probably "received" at Bernburg in April 41, or first flight or after modification .

Rémi

I accept to receive some :D among the answers

Re: Sonderstaffel 172
 

KG zbV 172 (Lufthansa) existed prewar and in 1940,
manned by ex-Lufthansa crews or personell

Re: Sonderstaffel 172
 

KGzbv172 , was one think, just Stab survive to be used to manage other units, but later was formed a KGr.zbv172, nd question is about a Sonderst.172 ...

Re: Sonderstaffel 172
 

This only one in my data base.


I./KG z.b.V. 172
.................................
Mar 41: probably reactivated for the forthcoming campaigns in the Balkans and Russia.
26 Apr 41: at Wiener Neustadt in reserve to Stab/KG z.b.V. 2 for operations in Greece.
12 May 41: listed in German documents as being at Berlin-Rangsdorf with 53(53) aircraft refitting in preparation for the Crete operation.
14 May 41: deployed in the Athens area under Stab/KG z.b.V. 1/XI. Fliegerkorps for the airborne and air-landing assault on Crete (Operation Merkur) beginning 20 May.
16 May 41: an ex-Lufthansa Junkers G 38 apparently assigned to the Gruppe bombed on the ground at Menidi/S Greece and destroyed.
3 Jun 41: the Gruppe was in the thick of it from 20 May, dropping paratroops over the objectives along the northern coast of Crete and then bringing in other troops, weapons, ammunition, supplies and probably fuel. By the end of the operation I./KG z.b.V. 1 has lost 6 Ju 52s and a further 14 damaged.
Jun – Oct 41: assigned to Qu./Luftflotte 1 as the only transport unit permanently assigned to operations in North Russia, according to Morzik, but this is both untrue and misleading (KGr.z.b.V. 106 was also assigned to Luftflotte 1 during much of this period). A chart maintained at Ob.d.L. in Berlin that displayed the daily distribution of units show the Gruppe to have been directly under Lufttransportführer/Ob.d.L. from 20 June to 9 August and then under Qu./Luftflotte 1 from 10 August on. Strangely, there is no mention of it in the Loss Reports during this period so there is no way to corroborate its location or detail its activities.
Oct 41: renamed KGr.z.b.V. 172.

FpNs: Gruppenstab and 1. – 4. Staffel (L 31213, L 08093)

Kommandeur:
Maj. Rudolf Krause (Mar 40 - ? ) 5/41

© H.L. deZeng IV, 2003

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


10.(Sonderstaffel)/KG z.b.V. 172


Formation and History. (Aug 39 - Sep 39)
Mobilized 26 August 1939, probably at Berlin-Tempelhof, with 4-engine transports (Ju 90, Fw 200, Junkers G 38) belonging to Lufthansa. Intended for the short-term needs of the campaign in Poland beginning 1 September, the Staffel’s first important mission was to transport the Stab of Luftflotte 1 from Stargard/Pomerania to Königsberg/East Prussia on 9 September, on which date it was also renamed 4./KG z.b.V. 172. On 20 September, as the campaign wound down, nearly all of the aircraft and crews were returned to Lufthansa and the Staffel was disbanded.

FpN: (L 31213)

Staffelkapitän:
Hptm. Otto Brauer (26 Aug 39 - 20 Sep 39)

© H.L. deZeng IV, 2003

Re: Sonderstaffel 172
 

Seens you have total answer Remi, it seems part (detached part?) of KG zbV 172
-Ed

Re: Sonderstaffel 172
 

Thks a lot , for the documented answer, I will go forward with the docs nd if the unit re-surface, I let you both know

Rémi

Re: Sonderstaffel 172
 

the Gruppe was in the thick of it from 20 May, dropping paratroops over the objectives along the northern coast of Crete and then bringing in other troops, weapons, ammunition, supplies and probably fuel

By the way Brits could hv been well aware of the coming "Erobering" Kreta, when at end of april it had been ask for 4000 chutes for Greece

Rémi

Re: Sonderstaffel 172
 

Yep, the forthcoming airborne and air-landing operation on Crete was quite clear from the intercepts by the end of the first week in May when Sonderstab Buchholz and Fliegerfuehrer XI. Fliegerkorps finished assembling 12 or more Transportfliegergruppen and Luftlandegruppen on airfields in Austria, Romania and Bulgaria. And the huge fleet of Lastensegler, too. But by then, there wasn't much the Brits could do about it.

L.

Re: Sonderstaffel 172
 

At least they surrounded the Island with a lot of surface see forces, wonder why they not try to intercept the flying armada positionning some Beaufighter in Kreta , probably the Bf109 couldn't escort the Ju52 nd the Bf110 just a bit better

Concerning the KGzbv172, It was formed with the full complement of Gruppen, nd on may 41 it was transformed to KGr.zbv172

End of April the KGzbv172+ KGzbv were retired from Afrika, nd regroup in Foggia

Rémi

Re: Sonderstaffel 172
 

Fighters were placed in Crete, but it was impossible to operate them under heavy attack. Losses were high.

Re: Sonderstaffel 172
 

Re: Sonderstaffel 172
 

Rémi wrote in part:
Do you have a source for this statement about the transformation being in May 1941, Rémi? It is in conflict with other sources.

L.

Re: Sonderstaffel 172
 

My source, not a very pimary one indeed , the book "Luftwaffe Markings" Barry Rosch the author, is usually pretty right , for the KGzbv1, he gave ;

Stab disbanded in Jan 1940
Stabstaffel disb. i. Mai 1941
i.Group with a complicated story, in fact long to transcrip:D
II.Group in mai 41 became FFS C6
III.Group who became the def. I.Group

Further I noted that the losses for 1942 are attributed to the KGrzbv172

A bit the same story as the one of the KGzbv108 downgraded to KGr.zbv108 after the Norwegian campaign

Rémi

Re: Sonderstaffel 172
 

Well, Rémi, I would be kind of careful with Rosch's 1995 book. It was a ground-breaker when it was first published by Schiffer. Nearly all of his formation, renaming and disbandment dates come from just one source: Norbert Kannapin's 3 volume work on the Feldpostuebersicht that was published by Biblio Verlag 30+ years ago. Anyway, his May 1941 date for I./KG z.b.V. 172 is incorrect. Furthermore, it doesn't even make sense. Why would the Luftwaffe be disbanding transport units in May and June 1941 right at the time of Crete and the 22 June 1941 attack on Russia? That was one of the 3 or 4 times during the war when they needed them the most.

L.

Re: Sonderstaffel 172
 

I would be careful !

Concerning "disbanding" units, its not exactly the case, Larry, just one group was activ with the KGzbv172, they just adapt name to the reality of the unit, further with transport units, Lwf , disdanded nd built-up units ad-hoc for the time of an operation , times became worst for the Lwf, after the losses of the month of May 41, nd really suffer from that when time came for the first "Einkesselung'', later as the Ju52 were scarce nd a bit slow, they activate units, a few, with He111 nd Me321/323, to add also that Lwf use a lot air-transport for urgent cases, all along the war , nd at a rythm beyond his petrol capacity.

Rémi