Colour of KG 26 shield?
 

Sirs,

On May 16 1940 a Heinkel 111 H-3 marked 1H+DN made a forced landing at Sitasjavvre in Northwest Sweden. The plane did carry a KG 26 shield, and it appears light in colour.
This being a machine from 5. Staffel wouldn't it be natural that the shield was red? Or did KG 26 carry just the one colour on their Shield, and was this colour then white or yellow?
Edit: Or was the shield the same colour, white/yellow and then there was an outline signifying the Staffel or Gruppe?

Inquiring minds wants to know ;)

Kyrre

Re: Colour of KG 26 shield?
 

The II. Gruppe shield was white with a red lion. The outline was probably red too.

Re: Colour of KG 26 shield?
 

The shield of KG 26 "Vestigium Leonis" was
- white with black lion for the I. group
- yellow with black lion for the II. group
- red with black lion for the III. group.
The letter "D" of your 1H+DN must have been red, the shield yellow.
Maybe the He 111 had red spinners too.

Re: Colour of KG 26 shield?
 

It seems you got this nailed pretty accurately so I'm going to trust your information over Primoz' over. Coincidentaly it also fits in with the decals for the shield that comes with one of the Hasegawa model kit issues (Though the model kit companies can rarely be trusted). Also of note is that the yellow shield has a red outline, something that can perhaps be either for II gruppe or 5. staffel.
It does seem strange they've changed the colour sequence for the II and III Gruppe, while normally they'd be red for II and yellow for III gruppe.

One thing I am not entirely convinced about is the individual letter, since both black and red was used as 2. and 5. staffel colours. Red was the most common, but I have seen a b/w pictures with what appears to be black lettering on a 5. staffel machine, albeit from 1942.

Regards,
Kyrre

Re: Colour of KG 26 shield?
 

You are right, when you have a look at KG 27, 30, 77, II. group had
a red shield, III. group a yellow one.
If they used coloured outlines sometimes, I don't know.
Maybe anybody else can help us here?

I own a photo of a He 111 1H+DN too, it could be the same plane.
The "D" is outlined in white, I think, and the letter in painted in
black or in red. The shield is really light, definitely not red.
Often some units (complete groups, "Staffeln" or "Ketten") painted
their individual letters also in black, so it's not unusual that you can
see photos with complete black codes.

Re: Colour of KG 26 shield?
 

Hi,
Another possibility could be a staffel change, I'm sure that an aircraft wouldn't be held back from operations just because the painters hadn't caught up with everything. There are plenty of examples of lost or damaged aircraft bearing partial or full markings for another Staffel or even Geschwader.
Could this be a possibility in this case?
Regards
David

Re: Colour of KG 26 shield?
 

I am definitely no expert on the matter but when it comes to the ops during the invasion in 1940 it doesn't seem that the outlined version of individual lettering was common. The problem with identifying one particular KG26 machine is the fact that they flew the Heinkel 111 through most of the war meaning there were several 1H+DN's for instance, and I'm sure the paint practises changed with theatre, which ranged from Norway to Finland, Russia and the Med, and I'm sure it varied with time available...

"My" 1H+DN is shown as when crashlanded on a lake in Northern Sweden, and it seems to me it's an H-3 from the exhausts. Even though you can't see the fuselage letters there's a leading edge "D" on each side and that letter surely looks black to me, without that actually being any proper indication of KG26 practises.
I'll see if I can get a scan.

Kyrre

Re: Colour of KG 26 shield?
 

Hi Guys

What are your sources? I myself have TWO sources which states the Shields colours. However Ketley and Rolfe in Luftwaffe Emblems 1939-45 actually manage to write one thing and paint another. I guess that is why I love proofreaders...:)

Ries (1963) Ketley/Rolfe (1998) Ketley/Rolfe colour sketch
I./KG 26 White White White
II./KG 26 Red Red Yellow
III./KG 26 Yellow Yellow Red

However, I tend to go with the "masses" here, since white was I.Gruppe, red was II Gruppe and yellow the III Gruppe, and I also find it entirely plausible that an aeroplane could appear in any Staffeln or Gruppe with all kind of codes/colours since there certainly had to be transfers between the Staffeln of the Unit and also between various Units. The longer the war went on we also see more and more aeroplanes being written off still wearing their Stammkennzeichnung. "Decorating" aeroplanes became more and more a luxury and it depended no doubt on both circumstances, time plus availabillity of paint...
Cheers
Stig

Re: Colour of KG 26 shield?
 

Hello Stig,

you are right, sorry. I've looked into Ketley and Rolfe too. So it's
really possible that in our case the He was transfered between the groups.

Re: Colour of KG 26 shield?
 

I think the Heinkel in question is the one depicted in "Luftwaffe in Sweden". The letter on the leading edge looks very dark - it looks black but it could be red if they used some kind of film that makes red look like black (in this case the lion could have been red).

I only know one color photo of the KG 26 badge - the cockpit of a desert camouflaged He 111 of II./KG 26 (on the cover of the original German edition 'Von der Fliegerschule zum Einsatzverband' (by Meyer and Stipdonk; Flugzeug Dokumentation series, No. 2) and also published in "La Luftwaffe en couleurs" by Patrick de Gmeline; Editions Heimdal). In this case the badge is a red lion on a white shield. It's difficult to tell a red lion on a white shield from a black lion on a white shield when all we have are b&w photos. But sometimes it's obvious that the lion is not dark enough to be black. At least in the Med II./KG 26 used red lions on white shields.

I've only seen one good photo of an He 111 of III./KG 26 and in this case the badge isn't black/red; it could be black/yellow, red/yellow or red/white (the second color being the color of the shield).

Re: Colour of KG 26 shield?
 

hi,
you are both right: the kg 26 carried all types of colors: red shield with black or white lion or white shield with red lion - it depends on the time when the machine was photographed...
regards
jim

Re: Colour of KG 26 shield?
 

What about the black shield with a white lion - was it just a variation of the I./KG 26 badge or was it the badge of Stab/I./KG 26 ?

Re: Colour of KG 26 shield?
 

Guys,

I'm very pleased with my query generating so much discussion and without drawing any conclusions I understand I'm pretty much on my own interpreting the actual picture in question. Well... I've scanned a few pictures just to show what I'm talking about.

Here's the Heinkel at Sitas. It appears to me the German crewmembers have retrieved the dinghy and also removed all guns before trying to get back to German forces (They ended up in Polish hands in Norway actually) Without being certain it doesn't look like the Swedes have used orthochromatic film when taking this picture so as far as I can tell the Lion is black.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/10...61HDNsitas.jpg

Here's a pic I found in the AJ-press Camouflage and Markings 5, showing another KG26 machine in 1941 according to the caption. It appears parts of the spinner could be same colour as the lion, which doesn't seem like it's black.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/10.../he111kg26.jpg

Finally I stumbled across this picture in the same publication. As the caption says it's a 5./KG 26 Heinkel and to me all of the letters seem very similar in colour, ie black.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/10...HBNfeb1940.jpg

Thanks for all your feedback folks

Kyrre

Re: Colour of KG 26 shield?
 

It's pity the Germans didn't use yellow-tipped prop blades. That would make color determination a little bit easier for us ...

I believe the lion in the second pic is red. The individual letter in the last photo doesn't look any different than the others (so black is the most plausible explanation - though it could have been red). The individual letter 'D' of the first Heinkel certainly looks black but as (IMO) this letter was meant for crew members (so that they could find their a/c in a hurry) black is not a good choice. But not everything was logical in the war ...