3 June 1942 Ju88 shot down off Southwold, Suffolk
 

Greetings,
Would it be possible that anyone may have information on the shooting down of a Ju88 off Southwold,Suffolk coast at 0248 hours on 3 June 1942 by a 75 Squadron Wellington,please?
I have a request for information for the g/niece of Sgt R E SHARP who first spotted the e/a from the astrodome and then Sgt Hirst shot the machine down.
I would like to know the identity of that Ju88 and/or its crew
Cheers, Digger

Re: 3 June 1942 Ju88 shot down off Southwold, Suffolk
 

Hi,
Try this one 'Herne Bay' due AA fire, but date 2 June likely does not match, unless plane be thought downed that day, and 0235 what (UTC, BST etc. ?)

5714 Ju 88 A-4 3Z+FN II/KG 77 (Luftflotte 3)
OPS (F) missing (100%) unk location 02.06.1942 (F Lt. Heinz Franke, B Uffz. Ernst Femel, BF Uffz. Udo Kempin and BS Ofw. Eugen Besler mis/ rep killed in h/01.07.42)

these two are unknown fates... 3 June, Luftlotte 3 was France, Holland, Belgium etc.

1591 Ju 88 D-1 F6+CL 3.(F)/122 (Luftflotte 3)
OPS (F) missing (100%) unk location 03.06.1942 (F Oblt. Friedrich Raschke, B Fw. Karl Bachmann, Uffz. Josef Steigerwald and BS Gefr. Karl Schwarz missing)

3656 Ju 88 A-4 3Z+KP II/KG 77 (Luftflotte 3)
OPS (F) missing (100%) unk location 03.06.1942 (F Ofw. Ernst Ebert, B Uffz. Adolf Schad, BF Uffz. Wilhelm Hoppe and BS Uffz. Paul Hoffmann missing)

for 4 June, I find no particular 'suspect' ... BTW this period has not been matched yet to found crash sites in or around England, Scotland or Wales (in my files). Possibly some info might be found in 'After the Battle' books or similar. Mason perhaps?

Ed

Re: 3 June 1942 Ju88 shot down off Southwold, Suffolk
 

Thanks Ed.
I will look further but I do have the 'Combat Report' and it gives 30 miles off Southwold, coast. (Suffolk)
A real puzzle, this one.

I will send you the DRAFT of what I have if you wish. Please contact me at awarculus@xtra.co.nz

Many thanks for your reply.
Cheers,
Digger

Re: 3 June 1942 Ju88 shot down off Southwold, Suffolk
 

Hi, GQM list has crew of Ltn Franke missing to killed on 2-6-42, he is reported on UK records as falling to AA at 0235hrs (3-5-42) at West Blean Kent during raid on Canterbury. Also reported lost on the 2-6-42 was 3Z+CP 140193 of II/KG77 with crew Ff Obfw.Josef Held, B Uffz. Hans Idem, Bf Uffz Erich Schulz and Bs Ogef Adam Heimarl all missing. On the 3-6-42 GQM shows Ju88 3Z+IM 3693 of II/KG77 as reported missing with its crew of Ff Oblt.Ludwig Schrodl. B Fw. Fritz Pichler, Bf Fw Andreas Schonwetter and Bs Uffz Herbert Schulz (body washed ashore Margate on 21-6-42), research by others credits this to F/L Robinson and F/L Crowther of 28 Sqd. 20 miles ENE off Foreness Point. In addition at 0238hrs on the 3-6-42 a Havoc crew of 85 Sqd. claimed a Do217 also 20 miles NE of Foreness, a Do217 did return to Gilze Rijen with 30% combat damage. I believe all the KG77 reported lost on either the 2nd or 3rd. were part of the raid by 58 aircraft on Canterbury on the night of 2/3-6-42,

Regards

Brian Bines

Re: 3 June 1942 Ju88 shot down off Southwold, Suffolk
 

Hello Brian,
Many thanks for your reply, this getting more and more interesting. Especially as you mention a Havoc. In their combat report the Wellington crew mentioned that...... the Ju88 switched on his headlamp and attacked.

I have given my contact address above to Ed so if either of you want the 'Combat Report', you are most welcome.

I remember that during the summer months we were on double summertime in those days.

A puzzle to me is the Luftwaffe unit of one of the tw 'missing' Ju88's that Ed mentioned, and that was 3(F)/122 from my 'Lufwaffe War Diaries' by Cajus Bekker (Pub 1964) were Recce Squadrons in 1939.I wonder if serial 1591 Ju88D-1 3(F)/122 was an intruder by 1942?

Cheers from downunder,
Digger

Re: 3 June 1942 Ju88 shot down off Southwold, Suffolk
 

Arthur
No still recce-intruders didn't return until autumn 1943
Chris

Re: 3 June 1942 Ju88 shot down off Southwold, Suffolk
 

Hi,

Brian, 3Z+CP was 140162 (not 140193), but yes, I missed out on that pssibility. Thanks.

140162 Ju 88 A-4 3Z+CP II/KG 77 (Luftflotte 3)
OPS (F) missing (100%) unk location 02.06.1942 (F Ofw. Josef Held, B Uffz. Hans Idem, BF Uffz. Erich Schulz and BS Obgefr. Adam Heimerl missing)

1591 D-1 was plain Recce one, probably dusk, daybreak or daylight. I do not remember any night recce done over Britain in that period.

BTW, I am not into individual combats or such. Lots of researchers better placed for that than I am. (Mostly doing production, logbooks and other Ju 88 history in general, also research into the lesser known aspects). Only a higly likely claim or confirmed gets into my list.

-Ed

Re: 3 June 1942 Ju88 shot down off Southwold, Suffolk
 

Thanks everyone for the input. Nice to hear from you again Chris.
I found this while browsing - comments?

Going to or returning from Scotland when shot down?
3-4 Jun 1942 – 3(F)./122 lost a Ju 88 on a sortie to the Scottish Coast.
Date
Unit
Aircraft Type
Code
Wkr.No.
Notes
3 Jun 1942
3(F)./122
Ju 88D-1
F6+CL
1591
Aircraft lost - Oblt. F-W. Raschke[3] Fw. Karl Bachmann (B), Uffz. Josef Steigerwald (Bf) and gefr Karl Schwarz (Bs).

Aircraft and names tie up with one of the two Ju88'sa missing, as Ed mentioned on this site.
http://www.luftwaffedata.co.uk/wiki/index.php?title=Aufkl._Gr._122_Jun_1942&printable= yes

Cheers Digger

Re: 3 June 1942 Ju88 shot down off Southwold, Suffolk
 

Digger, interesting that the Wellington crew reported the attacking Ju88 switched on its lights. The Havoc pilot says in his combat report he had to pull off from his first attack as he was initially blinded by the flash from his own guns. Anyway if you want a copy of his report PM me an e-mail address,

Regards

Brian Bines

Re: 3 June 1942 Ju88 shot down off Southwold, Suffolk
 

Thanks Brian I would appreciate that. My e mail address is (awarculus@xtra.co,nz).

All of this is quite complicated, in the main I must never MAKE it fit. I can only surmise which a/c the Wellington shot down. Like you I was taken by the fact they turned a searchlight on to the Wellington.

It would be handy to get a confirmation from 75 Squadron of the combat.

Cheers,
Digger

Re: 3 June 1942 Ju88 shot down off Southwold, Suffolk
 

Greetings, to all who participated to this ‘Thread’,
Although I cannot confirm which Ju88 was shot down by the Rear Gunner of the Wellington, I will, if I may, try not to bore you with my thoughts on this episode:-

Now we come to the part in which I have to say either ‘Yes’ I know the Ju88 that was shot down or, ‘No. I unfortunately have to answer ‘NO’ to this question.
I can only surmise which one it was and my reasons.
The Ju88 that I THINK is the aircraft shot down by the Wellington that night was:-
Ju88 D-1 Werk No. 1591 Code. F6+CL of 3. (F)/122 (Luftflotte 3)
The crew comprised;-
Pilot. Oblt. Friedrich Raschke
Fwble. (Karl Bachmann.
Uffz. Joseph Steigerwald.
Gfr. Karl Schwart.
All of whom are listed as ‘missing.
This aircraft was on a reconnaissance en route to or from Scotland and was reported as ‘missing’. The time Sgt Hirst shot down a Ju88 was0248 hours on the 3 June 1942. My puzzle is:-
1. Why was the Ju88 30 miles off the Southwold, Suffolk coast when shot down?
a. Had it come across from Germany, or returning to, at a narrower part of the North Sea to save the long overwater flight?
b. Spotted the Wellington and thinking that it may have a relaxed crew aboard due to being close to home after a raid?
c. It appears strange if it was the reconnaissance aircraft to attack the Wellington when its sole job was to take photograph’s, unless they thought they had an easy target, but Sgt. Sharp and Sgt.Hirst were very much awake.

According to the combat report the Ju88 made two attacks and was each time identified as a Ju88 by the Wellington crew.
In the end I have nothing positive, but this Ju88 was one of two ‘missing’ that night, the other was a bomber and the main attack was on Canterbury with was well south of the Wellington encounter.
We may never know the true identity of that Ju88, but someone may come up with the proof that we are seeking
One thing all these years later, we must have some feeling for the German families of the four crew members lost that night just as we have for the families of the Wellington who, only a short time later were killed themselves. What a terrible toll war has on those young men, whatever side they were on, both were doing their duty.

I do thank everyone who has assisted me on this search for the truth, and that is what our main aim is – the truth.
thanks again,
Digger

Re: 3 June 1942 Ju88 shot down off Southwold, Suffolk
 

Hi agin,
I would put my bet on the RAF Havoc after all, and no Ju 88 shot down.
The said airplane attacked a "Do 217" (and/or a Wellington, both twin engined, long and slender), I think no Recce Ju 88 D-1 be responsible (it was no Zerstörer), and also attacking plane mis-indentifield. There are countless cases of such mis-indentification, in WW2 combat or reports of planes seen and attacked (both daylight and at night) but also remarkably accurate ones inbetween.
Second clue be that it turned on the Headlight (Turbinlite Havoc perhaps?)
And perhaps the Havoc crew (two or three?) realized its mistake and simply kept quiet on other engagements that night (assumong it did damage the Do 217 about 30%).
-Ed

Re: 3 June 1942 Ju88 shot down off Southwold, Suffolk
 

Sorry but I would discount the recce Ju 88. Why if you were off to Scotland would you fly so close to land further south Also, recces would have been better in daylight and not night. Finally, did the Wellington gunner see the Ju 88 hit the sea or, as with many such Combat Reports, did he see the "ac dive away engines smoking"?

Re: 3 June 1942 Ju88 shot down off Southwold, Suffolk
 

Thanks Ed and Chris for your replies which I cannot help but agree with you both.
Chris. The Wellington combat report states “...on its back and fell TO the sea....” Not fell ‘in to the sea...” you are correct on that point. Also the rear gunner being blinded by his own gun flashes is noted in the report.
Rod. The e/a turning the light on troubles me and knowing Havocs were around as well with their known target illumination gear aboard. Adds another question mark.
Remember though Two Ju88’s were ‘missing’ that night the recce one and another possibly on the Canterbury raid. Iam lost for clues now!
Cheers and thanks,
Digger.