Ofw Artur Buchert
 

Does anyone know anything about this SNCO, a Bordfunker in a Kampfgeschwader who was awarded the Ehrenpokal in May 42?

Re: Ofw Artur Buchert
 

1944-09-05, 2.(F)/123, Ju 88D-1, WNr. 430231, 4U+KK, Alexandria, Unbekannt, Bruch 100 %.
FF Helmut Weixelbaum
BO Lt Horst Wolfahrth
BF Ofw Arthur Buchert
BS Fhj-Fw Karl Ottohal
All KIA

Re: Ofw Artur Buchert
 

Matti: are you sure about this? The GQM lists this aircraft as:

Ju 88D-5, 430231, Burian, Ltn. Hans-Werner (B)/Hess, Ofw. Kurt (F), 4.(F)121, wei§ W, 7A+WM, 23-Aug-43, MIA with crew, cause unknown., Ostfront, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #11)-Vol.20, (Pl.Qu. 8474), 100%, F

Re: Ofw Artur Buchert
 

Matti-This is great. Would that be 5 Sep 44 or 9 May 44? I have his Ehrenpokal

Re: Ofw Artur Buchert
 

Cannot be sure, because there are two losses for the same WNr. I think, that 430231 is not correct for this September 5 loss of Ju 88D-1 (I have made in my files a note "Wrong WNr?). Based on loss statistics I believe that:
430001-430100 are Ju 88D-5
430101-430166 are Ju 88D-1
430167-430250 are Ju 88D-5
430251-430940 are Ju 88D-1.
Therefore it is more probable, that August 23, 1943 loss of Ju 88D-5 is WNr. 430231.
Otherwise the info should be OK. If not, please correct and I will make modification to my database.

Best regards,
Matti Salonen

P.S. I use in my database standard ISO date format Year-Month-Day, because this way the computer makes excellent chronological lists.

Re: Ofw Artur Buchert
 

Matti: Where did you get the loss details from as I am about to ask WASt for the NVM? It looks to be the man in question (his christian name on the Ehrenpokal is Artur by the way). Weixelbaum was the St Kap and a DKiG holder. Buchert's name is not on the War Graves site

Re: Ofw Artur Buchert
 

Matti:

Thanks for the answer but I'm still a little confused. Are you saying that the 5-Sep-1944 loss of the a/c and the Buchert crew is not WNr 430231? But the basic information is OK, you just do not have the correct WNr.? I ask because the only two Ju-88 records I have for that date were both nightfighters lost in Germany and not Alexandria. Of course there are lots of missing records for 1944..........

Re: Ofw Artur Buchert
 

Frankly, I don't know. I have in my database over 115 000 losses and I have not written sources to the records. However, from my memory I believe that I got a hand-written list of Fernaufklärer-losses in 1944 from somebody in Germany who 20-25 years ago visited WASt and copied a lot of NVM-info. Anyway, to confirm this data you might be better to check with WASt.

Best regards
Matti Salonen

Re: Ofw Artur Buchert
 

Sorry, if I am causing confusion. For me this is one of those hundreds of cases, where Luftwaffe documents give same WNr. in two totally separated complete losses. Without having NVM for both of them I cannot tell for sure, which is correct and which is not. I tried to say, that there is a slight possibility that 430231 is correct for Aug 23 loss and NVM would reveal actual WNr for Sept 5 loss.

Best regards,
Matti salonen

Re: Ofw Artur Buchert
 

Matti/John: According to the NVM they were in a Ju 88 T-3, Wk Nr 330231, 4U+KK. By the way, it is the man I am after-just increased the value of my Ehrenpokal considerably

Re: Ofw Artur Buchert
 

Matti,Chris....

In the French magazine 'AVIONS No.111 pages 32,35,38' I have found the following : St.Kap. - 2.(F)/123 Hptm. Helmut Weixelbaum (+) DKiG 21/09/1942 (FF) ; Lt. Horst WOHLFAHRT Kg (rescued by British sea rescue) (BO) ; Ofw. Arthur BUCHERT (+) (BF) ; Fhj.Fw. Karl OTTAHAL (+) (BS) ; (88D-1,4U+KK)(430231) " Notwasserung ins Meer nach Luftkampf mit 2 Beaufighter, Nachtaufklärungsflug Alexandrie".
I coudn't find a WEIXELBAUM in Veit Scherzer's book 'Die Träger des Deutschen Kreuzes in Gold'. In stead there is a Oblt. Weixelmann Helmut, 1.(F)/120 noted who received the DKiG on 08/09/1942. Someone different or a mixing up of names ?
Greetz from a hot Belgium,

Dirk TOLLET

Re: Ofw Artur Buchert
 

Dirk: Thanks for this-it is the same apart from the Ju 88 variant. Weixelmann for 1/120 should read Weixelbaum

Re: Ofw Artur Buchert
 

Hi, at random i found this forum while i "google" for the name of my grandpa "Arthur Buchert" and i was really surprised to found something.
Unfortunately are all relevant papers lost in the fog of war.
i asked my father and he only knew that his father Arthur was shoot down near Alexandria in his Aufklärer (scout). My father will look for the notification from the german "Red Cross"...by any chance with some information for anyone here.
Maybe you can post me also any information about my grandfather Arthur Buchert you know. that would be great!

greetings from germany
Erik

Re: Ofw Artur Buchert
 

Erik I will send you a Private Message as I can answer all of your questions
Chris

Re: Ofw Artur Buchert
 

I can confirm Matti`s information,

FF. Hptm. Helmut Weichselbaum (+) Ju 88 D-1 (4U+KK, W.Nr. 430231) 100% m. BO. Ltn. Horst Wolfahrt (KG.),BF. Ofw. Arthur Burchert (+), Kr.Ber. Fj.Fw. Karl Ottahall (+) , 05.09.44 bei Alexandrien von Beaufighter,



regards

Byron

Re: Ofw Artur Buchert
 

It was Weixelbaum, Wolfarth, Ottahal and Artur Buchert (according to the NVM, Wolfarth and the Ehrenpokal) and there is no Allied claim for a Ju 88 over the Med that night so its loss is a mystery, not even solved by the report of Wolfarth

Re: Ofw Artur Buchert
 

Have to agree with John, who has my database. Somewhere in my 7-8 inches of WASt pages I have this, as I've recorded in my db: Ju 88T-3, 330231, Weixelbaum, Oblt. Helmut, , , 2.(F), 123, , 4U+KK, , , 05-Sep-44, Stkp. KIA with crew, cause unknown., F DKiG. Bf Ofw. Artur Buchert EP., Mittelmeer, WASt, , Alexandria, 100%, F, B Ltn. Horst Wolfahrth, Bf Ofw. Arthur Buchert & Bs FhjFw. Karl Ottohal, ,



I'm currently working on getting the WASt stuff I have scanned - when done would be more than happy to make exchanges!! I haven't checked the numbers in my db for some while - it would likely scare the bejebus out of me!

Re: Ofw Artur Buchert
 

On the AIR40-3109+3110+3114 the case is reported , a start around 20h00 from Tatoi crash 21h40 , date the 4. th

Rémi

Re: Ofw Artur Buchert
 

Hello,

I have in my database the following:

FF. Hptm. Helmut Weichselbaum (+) Ju 88 D-1 (4U+KK, W.Nr. 430231) 100% m. BO. Ltn. Horst Wolfahrt (KG.),BF. Ofw. Arthur Burchert (+), Kr.Ber. Fj.Fw. Karl Ottahall (+) , 05.09.44 bei Alexandrien von Beaufighter beschossen


Byron

Re: Ofw Artur Buchert
 

Byron: Look at my corrections above! This has been going on for some years now and I am still no closer to finding out who shot this plane down or how it crashed
Chris

Re: Ofw Artur Buchert
 

Chris,

I have this information from a secondary Source, a publication of ROBA.

Byron

Re: Ofw Artur Buchert
 

I have this. I also have the NVM and am in contact with the families of Weixelbaum & Buchert and was in touch with Wolfarth