Some new Brunnthal pictures (?)
 

The last for tonite, Gang!

I just found some Brunnthal pics here: are they already known?

Cheers
Marc

Re: Some new Brunnthal pictures (?)
 

Hi Marc-André,

Thanks for sharing! The 2nd one shows the well known JV44 jet with the cut off tail from the backside. I thought it was found at Burgau, but if these photos were taken at the same location, it seems it was found at Brunnthal.

Can you tell us the source of these photos?

Thanks!

Cheers,

Roger

Re: Some new Brunnthal pictures (?)
 

The third and last photo is from Brunnthal and new to me. The raised tail of Me 262 9K+FH "White F" can be seen behind the He 111 which I believe is 9K+FW. The first with the Bf 110 ??+MU is most probably also from Brunnthal and new to me. Photos from this site posted by Franck on the recent Me 262 thread here.

Re: Some new Brunnthal pictures (?)
 

Looking at an aerial photo of Brunnthal I use to locate and identify photos I believe I have found the position of the Bf110 in the first photo in post #1. By enlarging the very small photo from the website I believe it might be 2Z+MU of NJG 6. Anyone who can confirm? I have the Bf 110 position marked with "Bf 110 G-4 WNr.730286" but I have no note from where the WNr info is stemming from and if correct or not. Who can assist?

Re: Some new Brunnthal pictures (?)
 

Hi roger,

Sorry, it was too late yesterday, I was just worn out after hard week-end of work...
http://www.63rdinfdiv.com/occupationphotospage28.html

And I can't confirm anything as to where they were, no location is given....

Göran, thanks for your confirmation regarding Brunnthal. Hopefully someone will be able to assist you for Bf 110 "2Z+MU"...

Cheers
Marc

Re: Some new Brunnthal pictures (?)
 

Short answer: Not all are Brunnthal and those from there are not new. The Bf 110 G-4 was 2Z+MU, already indentified by Brunnthal "Specialist Group".

Marc, I get distaste in my mounth read some of abowe. Reason is not forgotten. I suggest "F19Gladiator" redact his, because a third person made this highly private Brunnthal research "accidentally" available, and some person (he obviously) saved this info, before the leak was stopped, but it (the research) really belong to two chaps down in Germany.
-Ed

Re: Some new Brunnthal pictures (?)
 

Hello everyone,

This is a most interesting thread.

Gladiator, how certain are you that the Werknummer of the referenced Bf110G at Brunnthal is 730286? I have two photos in my files of Bf110G-4 WNr.730266, coded 2Z+__. It was photographed post-war backed into the trees lining the Autobahn. Sadly, the photographs were taken at such an angle that the individual aircraft letter and unit letter aft of the unit code 2Z+ cannot be seen, nor any possible fuselage band as seen on 2Z+MU. In addition, my aircraft also features white tipped spinners and old-style radar masts without dipoles, both features noted on the broken-backed Bf110G-4 at Brunnthal.

However, as I write this I just noticed that the Brunnthal bird still has its gun cover in place. So unless the GIs moving it took the time to put my bird’s gun cover back in place, we are probably talking about two very similar but differed aircraft. Oh well.

Finally, just as a point of interest, among the Bf110G-4s found nearby at Bad Aibling were WNr.180837, 2Z+NU and 2Z+DU.

Steve Sheflin

Re: Some new Brunnthal pictures (?)
 

Hi Steve,
Thank you for your added information regarding the Bf110G-s :) I have not seen the photo above before or any photo revealing the code of it at the Brunnthal collection point. I have a note on the WNr.730286 and it stems from a discussion at LEMB here where I posted this (source highlighted in bold fonts):
"Looking for other images to combine with the above I’ve also found one at p.25 in Proulx, Wings of the Black Cross No 5, showing the nose of the Ju88G-6 seen in the front at the image from J&P F-A B.6 (rhs above) as well as part of Si204 with ‘90’ on the tail unit. Also Bf110G-4 tail with W.Nr.730286. U5+OT nose and it's two spinners with white(?) spirals on dark colour or vice versa (This spinner decoration seen also on other KG2 Ju88G-6 late in 1945, for ex U5+NT). There are so far these aircraft seen:
Ju88G-6 U5+OT
Bf110G-4 W.Nr.730286
Me410 BK+ZP W.Nr.130320
Si204 ?R+AK with ’90’ on tail unit and two yellow band indicating a BFS unit.

Ed. You owe me a sincere apology for your rude accusation above. I have not had access to the research you referred to and which you also denied to share information from when I politely asked you if you could share while you still was a member at LEMB. My own hobby research is based on published material such as books and magazines, eBay auctions (which have yielded a lot over the years) and discussions here at TOCH and over at LEMB. Nothing more than that. In case I am entrusted with confidential material and photos I never share them without outright permission of the one who supplied it to me. This said I have never yet shared what little such material I have got and I have received none in the case of Brunnthal why I can not have used it for my own research. I will welcome the findings if and when they are published by the two German guys. I understand a local exhibition took place with among other things photos from the Brunnthal aircraft dump based on their research and rumors about plans for a book has been around for long now. I have asked a well known book store in Germany to investigate if a book was available or coming but they got no reply from these guys. It looks like we can wait until the cows come home before that publication is coming. Until then I'll continue to investigate the matter myself and share my findings based on open sources here to the benefit of the members and where ever else I please.
Br
Göran Larsson aka "F19Gladiator"

Re: Some new Brunnthal pictures (?)
 

Ed, Steve and Göran, thanks to all for your inputs. And thanks Ed, for sparing Göran: he has no part whatsoever with that already forgotten "Brunnthal incident".

As an adventive question, I fiddle since while with this fine color shot published in Jet&Prop 4/2006, p. 67:

Any ideas about the location? Could it be also Brunnthal?

Cheers
Marc

Re: Some new Brunnthal pictures (?)
 

Ok, Marc, no problem on my part.
I think this colour one might be Neubiberg, but not Brunnthal.
Explaining other comment : I assisted heavily on the Brunnthal Scrapyard Research, and am still assisting. When it was "leaked" it leaked my research too, but I left other website by beiing kicked. Plain and simple. I do have most or all Brunnthal research data, but I can not give that away, for obvious reason, contrary what others complain about.
-Ed

Re: Some new Brunnthal pictures (?)
 

Marc, Thank you! I don't believe the colour shot is from Brunnthal.
Ed, I have no problem with you not sharing data on Brunnthal as I understand you obviously have woved not to share it. There is enough out there from open sources to entertain my own hobby ;) You still owe me an apology though.

Re: Some new Brunnthal pictures (?)
 

Thanks Ed for Neubiberg; very interesting!

Cheers
Marc

Re: Some new Brunnthal pictures (?)
 

Marc, the colour photo you've posted in Post #9 was published in a cropped version on the back cover of Mark Proulx, Wings of the Balck Cross #3. No location for the shot given. I have not found any further info on this photo in later issues.
Br
Göran

Re: Some new Brunnthal pictures (?)
 

Hi Marc,

there is also a possibility that this color photo was taken at Ingolstadt-Manching. The Ju 88 with the dark camo looks like a plane from 3./NJG 101 and, if you believe some photo captions, at least two other planes of this unit were captured there...

Just my two cents

Re: Some new Brunnthal pictures (?)
 

Hi Guys,

Back to the "right" thread!! :D

The second photo is obviously a rear view of WNr.111747, taken in a forest.
Since 5 years I'm reading those posts and threads, either in TOCH or in LEMB, I've never read that plane was FOUND in Brunnthal but in Hofoldinger Wald, like Weisses F and like "Weisse 9" WNr.11617.
That it has been scraped in Brunnthal like the others is another story.

Regards, Franck.

PS: Back to "Brunnthal Research" fight ??? Again ??? Come on ...

Re: Some new Brunnthal pictures (?)
 

Here you can see the position of "Hofoldinger Forst" or "Hofoldinger Holz" which means "Forest of (the village) Hofolding" between Brunnthal and Hofolding:

http://geoportal.bayern.de/bayernatl...oom=9&base=951

Re: Some new Brunnthal pictures (?)
 

Thanks Göran and Christian! The Mancing connection is of interest. I'm pretty sure I've seen that Ju 88 G "??+OL" with its dark crisscross camp pattern somewhere already. Will try to find out where...

Franck,

You're right about the Hofoldinger Forst; if I'm not mistaken, Brunnthal is on the southern edge of that forest, that's why all dispersed planes along the Munich-Salzburg Autobahn were collected together...in Brunnthal;-))

Cheers
Marc

Re: Some new Brunnthal pictures (?)
 

Hello again Marc,

Regarding the darkly-camouflaged Ju88G in the color shot, I too would love to know where these aircraft were found. Also, you identify it as __+OL. Perhaps it is the result of my old eyes, but I have always thought that it was __+DL instead. Perhaps some of our members with younger eyes can clarify this point for us.

Steve Sheflin

Re: Some new Brunnthal pictures (?)
 

Ah! Thank you Marc, I didn't lose my time then :)!
That means there was no Brunnthal scrapyard without Hofoldinger forest dispersal first !! :D

Regards, Franck.

Re: Some new Brunnthal pictures (?)
 

Hi all,

the color photo was photographed in Munich-Riem or Schleissheim airfield. (On the back side of the photo was written "Reim"; source: german magazin Jet&Prop - years ago)

The Me262A Werknummer 111747 from JV44:
Two points that argue against the location Brunnthal, our knowledge today:
The entrances and exits to the highway Munich-Salzburg (here: exit Hofolding and auxiliary exit Brunnthal ) were cleared from shrubs and bushes wider. Before this Me262 the road makes a long bow to the highway. All other roads run straight to the highway, not in a bow like this street with aircraft.
Other Photos of Brunnthal (dispersal area, highway and scrapyard) show neither the 111747 nor the wreckage of the aircraft.

Re: Some new Brunnthal pictures (?)
 

forget....

Regards
Matthias