WNr. 1420
 

Gents,

Any help will be the most welcome:

http://www.me109.info/display.php?a=e&fid=7997

It seems it was in Leie Flugbuch ...
But I have it as 100% lost on 28/10/1940, Ofw. Hans John (+) 4./JG 51.

Regards, Franck.

PS: I'm talking about David's comment, not about the photo.

Re: WNr. 1420
 

I have both (contradictory) entries, too. One must be wrong...

Regards

Roland

Re: WNr. 1420
 

There was an e-Bay photo, from Jan. 7th of this year I believe (check e-Bay listing on the LEMB) of John with his 'white 10'. The WNr. is pretty clear as 1420. And Leie's does say WNr. 1420 for the date in question. I also have a loss entry for this WNr. as being 10% damaged with 5./JG 27 on 1-Sep-40 with pilot Emmerich Fluder.

Re: WNr. 1420
 

Yes Jim!

I didn't pay attention to my files yesterday but I got it later.
So:
Bad writing and/or misreading of Leie flugbuch??

Regards, Franck.

Re: WNr. 1420
 

Is there an other close up for the WNr of the "white 10"? I don't see here a "pretty clear"?!

Got anyone a copy of Leie's flightbook? Or Mr. Prien check this again? Typo? Its pretty clear to read in JFV 4/I page 75. ;-)

A 100% loss can be also loss behind the lines. Was that plane recovered and repaired? Just a guess and an option...

Re: WNr. 1420
 

Exactly what I was thinking...

Re: WNr. 1420
 

Ya, pretty clear might be a stretch, but WNr. 1420 'white 10' was the machine the pilot H. John from 4./JG 51 was reported killed in on 28-Oct-40. (Note the II./JG 51 'Weeping Bird' badge obscured by the tailplane.)

I do have a copy of the Leie FB and made my comment on his machine based on that. There was more than one entry for that WNr. in that document.

There are no other loss entries in my database for WNr. 1420 after the 28-Oct-40 loss.

Re: WNr. 1420
 

Hi Guys,

I see no confusion with it.

...
Well,
Who was the user of that Bf 109 E-7/Z (For LEMB readers! :) ... The spelling not the "who" :):):)) depicted in David's site?

Regards, Franck.

Re: WNr. 1420
 

Hi Jim,

are you talking about collision with Morgenstern "Weisse 9"?

Regards, Franck.

Re: WNr. 1420
 

This what I have. No mention of a collision.

Bf 109E-4, 1420, Fluder, Oblt. Emmerich, , II., 5., JG 27, , , , , 01-Sep-40, Luftkampf with enemy fighters. Safe landing., , Kanal, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #2)-Vol.3; Prien, et al, Die Jagdfliegerverbände, IV.1, p.404, , (Dover), 10%, F, , ,
Bf 109E-4, 1420, John, Fw. Hans, 8, II., 4., JG 51, weiße, 10 +, , , 28-Oct-40, KIA in FSA after Luftkampf. Chute didn't open., , Kanal, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #2)-Vol.3; Prien, et al, Die Jagdfliegerverbände, IV.2, p.69; Ring, JG 51 loss list, p.45; Mason, p.463; BoB, T&N, p.702, , 10km nordnordwestlich Cap Gris Nez, 100%, F, , ,

Re: WNr. 1420
 

Thanks Jim,

Jagdwaffe Vol 2, Sect2 page 162, Mombeeck, Wadman and Pegg. Photo caption:

“This photograph is believed to show Uffz. Wilhelm Morgenstern’s Bf 109 E-1 ‘White 9’, W.Nr.6336, of 4./JG 27 at Fiennes on 3 September, following a collision with Oblt. Emmerich Flufer’s ‘Black 15’ of 5./JG 27 …”

1/ I was wondering if 1420 was a Black 15.
2/ 10% is not that much and the plane would have been back two days later? Hence 1/ question.
3/ In the meantime, considering White 9 situation I was surprised that Fluder’s plane was only 10% damaged …

What do you think: 1420 and Black 15 same plane? Or Fluder was flying a remplacement aircraft? (15 being a high number) … while 1420 was still in repairshop on 03/09?

Regards, Franck.

Re: WNr. 1420
 

Given the dates, I suspect they are different machines. Then again errors for dates aren't totally unheard of in the loss reports.

Re: WNr. 1420
 

Yes, I will consider they are different ... Until the next update, if ever.
Thanks Jim.