German Abbreviation
 

I have found this abbreviation in a Soldbuch from Luftwaffe pilot.

He was attached to this unit in Sept/Oct 1939. Can anyone identify it for me please and what its role was and where was it located.

M.Fl.Betr. Stoff Kol. (mot) I/XIII

many thanks,

David

Re: German Abbreviation
 

Hello!

Mittlere Flugbetriebsstoff Kolonne (motorisiert) I/XIII
Basically a motorized supply column transporting fuel, lubricants etc.

Re: German Abbreviation
 

Many thanks for such a speedy response.

An unusual attachment for an airman.

Has anyone else come across this when dealing with Luftwaffe personnel?

Thank you again.

Re: German Abbreviation
 

Hi David,
You can't be serious, no airforce will operate without fuel. BTW roman XIII refers to the Luftgau the administrative organization supporting the airfields.
bregds
SES

Re: German Abbreviation
 

Thank you for your response.

My surprise is that a qualified pilot, having attended A/B Schule, would be attached to a unit delivering fuel. All air forces need fuel, but the drivers and other ranks don't tend to be pilots, navigators or general air crew members.

Many thanks all the same.

Re: German Abbreviation
 

Obviously without seeing the soldbuch unit & lazarett pages it is hard to cast any light on it but was he actually at the flying schools as a pilot or maybe a ground crew member? Or was he later posted to another flying unit as a pilot (i.e. if they were the last flying units he attended as aircrew maybe he failed to qualify?)

Re: German Abbreviation
 

He was already a qualified pilot and went on to win some of Germany's highest decorations.

Re: German Abbreviation
 

Mr. Williams -

It would be very easy to get angry with some of your questions because they show a profound lack of knowledge about the Luftwaffe and air forces in general during World War II. The reaction might be to tell you to do some basic reading on the organization of the Luftwaffe, especially the Bodenorganisation, Luftnachrichtentruppe and the Flakwaffe. If you are going to collect militaria, you should know these things at some level, at least. But I will not fault you because there is no published source that gets into this subject at even a superficial level. The only source that I know of is:

British Air Ministry Publication S.D. 431, The Organisation of the German Air Force, January 1943. SECRET. 129p.

To answer your question about the guy with the Flieger-Betriebsstoffkolonne, you would need his Karteikarte or Personalakte to determine how it happened. He may have "washed out" of A/B school, he may have been injured in an accident and sent to a less demanding job, he may have been court-martialed, stripped of rank and sent to the Flieger-Betriebsstoffkolonne, he may have been determined "unreliable", he may have voluntarily requested a transfer, etc. You would have to examine his records to find out.

I think what irks some of us is that you and other militaria collectors and dealers usually make money in your back and forth trades and exchanges, sales and resales. But you have no problem coming here and asking the members to donate their free, no charge time to do research for you. Put yourself in our shoes. Wouldn't you feel at least a little peeved? Your comments, please.

L. deZ.

P.S. m.Fl.Betr.St.Kol. 1/XIII (FpN: L 11213) was formed on general mobilization 26 August 1939 in Luftgau XIII, which was the Nuernberg area. It's probably not possible to find out at which of the many airfields in Lg.Kdo. XIII's territory.

Re: German Abbreviation
 

Is this the Same David P. Williams of next books?
Cerberus Publishing Ltd., - David P. Williams - Day fightersHunters for the Reich - 2002
Chevron Publishing Ltd, - David P. Williams - Nachtjäger - Luftwaffe Night Fighter Units 1939-1943 - Classicolours - Volume One - 2005
Chevron Publishing Ltd, - David P. Williams - Nachtjäger - Luftwaffe Night Fighter Units 1943-1945 - Classicolours - VolumeTwo - 2005
Tempus Publishing Ltd., - David P. Williams - Night Fighters - Hunters of the Reich - 2001

Re: German Abbreviation
 

Mr de Zeng,

Quite a statement, which if you knew me is way off the mark!

I am NOT a dealer or collector and to make such a presumption 'irks' me as you put it. Perhaps I have slighted you in another life?

I do not come here to 'leach' your free time or others. If you look at some of my 300+ posts you'll see I contribute when I can as well as ask the better informed on the forum to help me in my own research.

My main field of interest are the Nachtjagd and RAF Bomber Command. I do not, nor have I ever, professed to be an expert in everything Luftwaffe. It was such a huge organisation I am sure there is no-one out there that knows everything, and sometimes everyone needs a little pointer in the right direction. This is, I'm sure, the purpose of this forum.

Your presumption of me being a dealer/collector, as well as tone, have surprised me. I do not have any items of Luftwaffe memorabilia except for photographs.

The pilot in question was Hauptmann Martin Becker, who I interviewed on several occasions before he passed away in 2006. The question of why he was with this unit did not arise until after he died. He was with the unit for several months, he was not injured, disciplined or 'washed out' In fact he had outstanding reports and assessments.

Please feel free to call upon me at any time you require any reciprocal assistance in the future - no charge of course!

Thank you for your help.

Re: German Abbreviation
 

Hi Philippe,

Yes I am.

Another reason for being somewhat taken aback by Mr de Zeng's comments.

All the best,

David

Re: German Abbreviation
 

Gentlemen

To calm things down, I can confirm that David P Williams is not only a man of standing (still PC?) but a published author and not an avid collector of militaria. I believe that his questions are in support of a proposed book, the questions arising he has been unable (like many on this Forum) to solve.

Regards

Chris

Re: German Abbreviation
 

Good morning Chris.

Thank you for your professional and kind comments.

I am still in the service, less than 5 years now to retirement.

You are correct with the proposed book. I hope to have the Becker book finished this year, but it has been on the back boiler for some 6 years now due to work commitments.

My knowledge concerning Luftwaffe ground units and organisation is somewhat limited and the forum is strongly represented with many experts and enthusiasts whose knowledge is second to none. Perhaps you, or others, here could give me some pointers as to relevant books or other written sources.

I felt somewhat slighted by the 'money' comment, but as far as I am concerned the matter is now closed. Thank you again for your comments.

David

Re: German Abbreviation
 

Retirement eh? I resigned Jun 12, finished Jul 12 and 3 days later started new job (out of the RAF for good Nov 12). I had qualified for my pension before you ask! Not been sacked yet-there is life outside the service/Services!

Re: German Abbreviation
 

Good to hear there is life after the service, as I joined at 19 and know nothing else.

Not sure what I'll do afterwards but I'm sure something will come up.

All the best,

Re: German Abbreviation
 

Mr. Williams -

In an earlier post in this thread, you mentioned a Soldbuch and the entries there in. Soldbuecher are a collectible and usually purchased, sold and traded by militaria collectors. I made a fair assumption.

You also reacted somewhat negatively to the post made by SES. My comment was an attempt to explain SES's reaction. SES is a highly respected colleague and I will always rise to his defense when I believed him to be on solid ground.

Next time just ask if someone can interpret the entries in a Soldbuch and e-mail a scan of it to the volunteer. My co-author, Doug, and I have done close to 2,000 Luftwaffen-Karteikarten over the past year and a half and these are nearly identical to the Soldbuch entries. We would be glad to help.

L. deZ.

Re: German Abbreviation
 

OK, guys, this thread seems to have calmed down. But, let me reiterate that personal commentary on people's motives have no place on the forum. If you don't like it, don't answer a post. If you think something is way out of line email me or Nick and we'll take a look. Both of us monitor the site several times a day.

As for people "using the site" for profit or whatever, that is your choice to reply or not. There have been other complaints about such activity and when polled, the responder(s) said they did not mind answering, so there. Again, you do not have to answer.

Recall this forum hosts a fantastic number of great researchers and writers. Some do not always command the English language well, but they, for the most part, do well, so let's be patient, especially with "newbies". We all had to start somewhere.

As we all know, this is the best such forum on the web, with the participation of so many "experten/experts" who can answer and help. The collective knowledge base here is beyond belief. Do not screw it up with personal chastisements and impatience.

Re: German Abbreviation
 

Hello Mr. Larry deZeng, lieber "Alter Hase",

how come you are writing such nasty remarks about David P. Williams! I met this honorable police officer David about 20 years ago when he was still writing books about Luftwaffe Nightfighters in his off-duty-time.

Presently he is writing about Martin Becker, a man who deserves some acknowledgement about his 10 claims in one night with his radio-operator.
I hope these things never happen again.

best regards
Peter Spoden I/NJG 6

Re: German Abbreviation
 

Sehr geehrter Herr Spoden,

I explained it all above in Post #16.

Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

H.L. deZeng