Luftwffe & captured Allied Flt.Gear
 

I am trying to understand if there was a Luftwaffe directive prohibiting their pilots to use captured flight gear. I don't want to enter into Nazi and WWII German plunder endless topics, but understand why some Lufwaffe pilots were permitted to use Allied flight jackets and thermic flyers coveralls . I am not sure as into Moelders jacket's origin though it had some similarity with the standard Russian Army severe weather jacket.

Likewise if there were cases of Allied pilots flying wih German flight garments ( other than Russians )

Re: Luftwffe & captured Allied Flt.Gear
 

No directive that I know of.

The jacket Moelders is wearing is most likely "private purchase", something he had made up. You will also see him wearing private purchase fur gloves in some photos. There were many Luftwaffe pilots that did the same. This was common during the early part of the war when the Luftwaffe had a somewhat limited selection of "production" flight gear. You can see numerous early war pictures of Luftwaffe pilots wearing what look like leather motorcycle jackets purchased in France.

IIRC Heinz Bar traded something with a crew member for the AAF A-2 jacket.

http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto1/molders1.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ur_Laumann.jpg

Re: Luftwffe & captured Allied Flt.Gear
 

Hello

Thank you lots for posting these photos, to my knowledge the flyers jacket worn on your shot is a standard German issue . As into Baer's A-2, I would be very interested to know if indeed US airmen would give out such items needed on the POW camp to a Whermacht eventually a Nazi pilot,but that's something I really can't tell .....I know that the Luftwaffe, Gestapo, SD and regular Whermacht soldiers were keen to get US & British airmen watches and flight gear due to superior quality of these garments.

As into the gloves and jackets made in France, sorry no clue

Re: Luftwffe & captured Allied Flt.Gear
 

Here are some captured / traded examples:

http://www.me-109.com/captured.bmp


http://www.me-109.com/captured2.jpg

Re: Luftwffe & captured Allied Flt.Gear
 

The jacket Moelders is wearing in my second photo is NOT German issue. It's private purchase. The Luftwaffe did not issue a leather jacket until 1944, it came in shades of brown and greys. The majority(not all) of these were electrically wired for heated flight gloves.

http://www.rockislandauction.com/pho...086-H-O3-O.jpg

Re: Luftwffe & captured Allied Flt.Gear
 

Thank you so much, very interesting shots, I have a luftwaffe flight gear manual let me look into this and I'll revert with some scans for you. Thank you again ....and perhaps you could get me some details as into the French manufacturer

Best Regards

Re: Luftwffe & captured Allied Flt.Gear
 

The pilots simply bought/aquired leather jackets from clothing stores in France, Italy, or any other country they may have been in. There are numerous variations of style worn.

This book may help you.
http://heritageflightgeardisplays.fi...411_9999_9.jpg

Re: Luftwffe & captured Allied Flt.Gear
 

Yeah, I've got this book but there's little or not all info on Luftwaffe flt.jackets espcially those aquired abroad.

Re: Luftwffe & captured Allied Flt.Gear
 

This photo came in a photo album that forms part of the Oscar Müller grouping. The three officers from 5./KG1 are (left to right):

Oberleutnant Müncheberg
Leutnant Oscar Müller
Ali Petzenhauser

The caption in the album reads: 'That's me. English flying jacket 'captured' on the beach at Dunkirk'

An attributed example perhaps?

Best wishes
Tim O.

Re: Luftwffe & captured Allied Flt.Gear
 

Thanks for the great shot Tim , indeed that must be an early RAF version of Irvine sheepskin aircrew jackets
or a German type not yet known to me, check the left shot Oessau and right hand shot Horten , both have visible
similarities with the one captured at Dunkirk .This worn by Steinhoff I can't identify neither the one on mid photo
but suspect the last mus be Frence in similar to the location of the group.

Best Regards
AlexK

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/data:i...r6fwH9pVGf/9k=http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/data:i...VujpRTFc//2Q==

Re: Luftwffe & captured Allied Flt.Gear
 

Hello,
I remember photos from FFI-Pilots (Dewontine 520 at late 1944-45) wearing german flying boots and the light blue Flight Jacket! (photos are in an french book about the D 520, taken at or near Toulouse)

Re: Luftwffe & captured Allied Flt.Gear
 

Here's an other pattern of the Luftwaffe jackets dated 1939

Re: Luftwffe & captured Allied Flt.Gear
 

More confusing Luftwaffe jackets, the pilot of the JG 4 depicted wearing an unknown issue flyers jacket with two dolphines embroidered on the left

Re: Luftwffe & captured Allied Flt.Gear
 

Not dolphins but "the whites of their eyes" relating to the unit getting in close to shoot down aircraft? I could be wrong though!

Re: Luftwffe & captured Allied Flt.Gear
 

This is not a Luftwaffe issued jacket. It is private purchase.

Re: Luftwffe & captured Allied Flt.Gear
 

Again, not a Luftwaffe issued jacket. It is private purchase.

The picture I posted in post #5 shows you what the only "Luftwaffe issued" leather jacket looks like. All other leather jackets where aquired privately by either having one custon made, aquiring one from a store, or aquiring British/AAF flight gear.

Re: Luftwffe & captured Allied Flt.Gear
 

Yes I know, I didn't mean Luftwaffe issue but the variety of jackets used, I am aware of the private nature of these aquisitions

Re: Luftwffe & captured Allied Flt.Gear
 

Hi
Chris correct u are
sharon

Re: Luftwffe & captured Allied Flt.Gear
 

The pilot on the picture is Fw. Gerhard Vivroux. "The White in the eyes of our foe" was typical for the leather jackets of pilots from IV.(Sturm)/J.G. 3 "Udet" and former Sturmstaffel 1 pilots and not for the J.G. 4.

Especially for the user "researcher111" I have a problem with the words "Nazi pilot".

Kaczmarek

Re: Luftwffe & captured Allied Flt.Gear
 

You are right my typo, it was Fw.G.Vivroux who died due injuries on 25.10.44 at the 14./JG3 . As into the political wording , what are you trying to say ? Not all Luftwaffe pilots may have been NSDAP members but most of them were the elite of the German society who from very first beginning fought for Germany of Hitler & Goering and Nazi ideology ....though I would rather not discuss it on here and suggest you keep the problem to yourself if you are headed into a political debate . Last but not least the French and Russian traitors pilots (Vlasow's Army ) who joined the Wehrmacht were too under same category and political affiliation. Post WWII there very few Luftwaffe pilots who were really remorseful about their WWII doings, just because later on they trained under NATO in US and UK and afloated stories that during the war they were not aware of the atrocities committed by their fellow Germans but were just blinded by Hitler , on most of the cases that was a bunch of bolony, a face saving device and pure bull !

Last but not least your name sounds Polish , was wondering on why you got hanging on my terminology ? good luck & Gen Dobry Pan Kaczmarek

Re: Luftwffe & captured Allied Flt.Gear
 

Walter Horten was never a Gruppenkommandeur, he was a wingman of Galland though. And I second the 'Nazi pilot' crap. Edit: Kaczmarek was a Luftwaffe term for wingman FYI.

Re: Luftwffe & captured Allied Flt.Gear
 

I am aware about something spelled Katchmarek rather than Kaczmarek which is Polish...google the last .....

Re: Luftwffe & captured Allied Flt.Gear
 

researcher111, please tone down your rhetoric. This is a very professional forum about facts not political opinions crap. If you have germane points, post them.

Personal attacks will not be tolerated. Be warned.

Re: Luftwffe & captured Allied Flt.Gear
 

John

Thanks for the feedback, though how could possibly a disagreement at my end can be interpreted as a personal attack ? would you please comment ?

Re: Luftwffe & captured Allied Flt.Gear
 

Please switch on your brain before writing. "Kaczmarek" is my username and not my real name. Regarding the german word for Rottenflieger or wingman. The correct writing is Kaczmarek and not "Katchmarek" or others. You should inform better.

I can live without her unqualified and stupid comments in future.

Re: Luftwffe & captured Allied Flt.Gear
 

Alright thanks for the compliments....by the way who is she ?