Help from any Norwegians...
 

Hi all and Happy New Year,

I am looking for a detailed account of Circus 201 which occurred on 31/7/1942 and in which 332 (Norwegian) lost 4 pilots (2 killed and 2 POW) as well as the CO, Major Mohr wounded.

This seems to have been a very dark day for 332 and I am trying to get further info on 332´s involvement in this op as well as a more detailed account of the action in relation to the 332 pilots involved.

Thanks in advance!

Tim.

Re: Help from any Norwegians...
 

Hello Smithy,

From FCL vol 2
332 Sqdn losses were -
Spitfire Vb serial number AR379 Sgt. O. Tanburg killed.
Spitfire Vb serial number BL960 Lt. E. Hagan POW.
Spitfire Vb serial number AB906 2Lt. H. K. Hansen POW/wounded.
Spitfire Vb serial number EP177 Maj. W. Mohr wounded.
Spitfire Vb serial number BL386 Sgt. S. Nygaard killed.
Spitfire Vb serial number AD449 pilot ? fate ?

Hope this helps.

Any idea as to the pilot of AD449 ?

Alex

Re: Help from any Norwegians...
 

Thanks Alex, I´ve actually got all that info.

I´m after a more detailed account from the 332 pilots´perspective if possible. I´m hoping one of the Norwegians here might have access to the combat reports or from the official history of 332 which was published on the 50th anniversary of its formation which might mention this.

Cheers anyway!

Tim.

Re: Help from any Norwegians...
 

Hi Tim,

No problem.

Here are nine of the names of the twelve pilots that took part. the details of 201 can be found on Les butlers site for 1942.You may be able to get further details from that site.
Have you the other three names ? if so could you post them here please?
Maj.W. Mohr
Lt. H. Hagen
2Lt. H. K. Hansen
2Lt. S. Heglund
Sgt. N. K. Jórsted
Sgt. S. Liby
Sgt. S. Nygaard
Sgt. O. Tanberg
Sgt. T. Waerner

Thanks
Alex

Re: Help from any Norwegians...
 

Hi Alex,

Sorry I don´t have the names of the other 3 pilots involved either.

Seems to have been a 332 show with Mohr leading, although by the looks of it they seconded Heglund and Jørstad from 331 to be involved as well. It would be interesting to know whether any of the other 3 were also from 331.

I´ve just had a look in "Høk over Høk" and unfortunately Heglund doesn´t appear to mention Circus 201 in his text, there is only the entry from his logbook in the back of the book which mentions his damaged 190.

Tim.

Re: Help from any Norwegians...
 

I don't access to any detailed accounts. I just thought I'd add what little is said in "Spitfire, Norsk jagerflyger i kamp" by Birger Tidemand-Johannessen. Translated:
"332 Squadron's first meeting with the FW190 took place towards the end of July 1942 and it cost them four planes The Germans lost a Bf109F and one FW190 while another one was damaged. The Allies realised the German tactics of first using Fockewulf at low altitude as bait while a larger swarm would be waiting at higher altitudes in order to take the attackers from above and behind."

Kyrre

Re: Help from any Norwegians...
 

Hi Kyrre, thought you´d be hanging around at MUG ;)

Thanks for that. The old story of Spit Vbs being mauled by 190s and a hard lesson learnt by 332.

Cheers,

Tim.

Re: Help from any Norwegians...
 

I'm everywhere. Especially when I'm at home from work. :)
I've checked up with Vera Henriksen's Airforce-book about the war and although this book normally is quite detailed there's nothing in it on the actual date as I can see.

Kyrre

Re: Help from any Norwegians...
 

Alex
You mentioned a site by Les Butler. What is the address ?

Re: Help from any Norwegians...
 

Hi Alex and Kyrre,

I found some more info regarding Circus 201...

Target was Abbeville (home of the infamous "Abbeville Boys") with 12 RAF Bostons from 2 Group and fighters from 9 squadrons (121 sorties flown). Rendezvous was at 14:30 with the pilots from 331 and 332 acting as target support.

The RAF claimed 11 destroyed, 1 probable and 5 damaged for the loss of 10. The Bostons only achieved strikes on the north-eastern dispersal of the target.

Tim.

Re: Help from any Norwegians...
 

From 332 Sqn ORB

12 Spitfire VB of 332(N) Sqn took off with the North Weald Wing at 1415 hours. Sqn crossed the English coast at Pevensey Bay at zero feet, crossing channel at zero feet and gaining height approx. mid channel. The French coast was crossed somewhat S. of Berck-sur-mer at about 15000 feet, 332 Sqn stepped up on top of wing, with Lt. Hagen E, Lt. Hansen H, Sgt Nygaard S and Sgt Tandberg O to starboard. The wing made inland to the forest of Crecy-en-Ponthieu, there turned North and up over Pointe Haut Banc coming round in a wide orbit over the Caycaux Le Croyoy area. Our fighters were reported to be engaged by e/a, and the wing was ordered down and from approx this point dog fight developed. The Sqn was split up during the combat, and all had finally landed by 1635 hours except the four which are reported missing. White section were forced to return early owing to engine trouble.
Claims: Sgt Liby one Bf 109F, Sgt Waerner one Fw 190 and Major Mohr one damage Fw 190
4 pilots and A/C missing and Maj Mohr slightly injured by cannon shell splinters in left leg and left cheek but managed to bring his aircraft back and made a belly landing owing to the flaps and under carriage failing to work

Aircraft Crew Duty Time Up Time Down
EP.177 Major Mohr W Rodeo 14.15 1635
EN.901 Sgt Rønhof K Rodeo 14.15 16.35
BL.960 Lt. Hagen E Rodeo 14.15 Missing
W.3125 Sgt Waerner T Rodeo 14.15 16.35
AB.906 Lt Hansen H Rodeo 14.15 Missing
BL.634 Sgt Liby S Rodeo 14.15 16.35
W.3507 Sgt Raeder B Rodeo 14.15 16.35
BL.386 Sgt Nygaard S Rodeo 14.15 Missing
EP.283 Lt Kristiansen O Rodeo 14.15 1635
AR.379 Sgt Tandberg O Rodeo 14.15 Missing
P.8720 2/Lt Lindseth E Rodeo 14.15 15.40
W.3647 Sgt Gilhuus J Rodeo 14.15 15.40

From 331 Sqn ORB

Take of at 14.15 Hours for Circus operation 201. This unit acting as top cover for target support wing. Coming out from Berck aerodrome the lower sqn of N.W. wing were engaged by Fw 190 between French coast and Mid Channel. One section 2/Lt Heglund and Sgt Jorstad of this unit joined the melee and both claimed 1 Fw 190 damaged. All a/c landed safely at Base by 15.45 Hrs

And finally according to Luftwaffe loss lists; no Fw 190 loss that day due to enemy action

edit no 1: ehhhhh seems I am a little wrong here, have to check this one more thorough. Will be back on this one

edit no 2: could only find 2 german combat loss this day, both from 11./JG 2. Luftwaffe loss list say Bf 109 G1 and another sources says Fw 190 A. But again only two in the luftwaffe loss list

Best from Norway
Olve Dybvig
www.luftwaffe.no

Re: Help from any Norwegians...
 

Hello all,
Lt H Hansen was badly injured in this incident and I understand that he was repatriated because of these injuries. Can anyone confirm this with date and as Norway was occupied was he sent there or to Britain.
Many thanks
Tony Kearns

Re: Help from any Norwegians...
 

my apologies I should have asked also, did he go back to flying or what was his fate, please?
Tony K

Re: Help from any Norwegians...
 

Tusen hjertelig takk Olve!

Perfekt! :)

Hilsen Tim.

Re: Help from any Norwegians...
 

Hi Tony,

Unfortunately I can´t help with this but I would say that it was probably unlikely that he went back to operations. Usually for a POW to be repatriated the wounds had to be fairly serious and more often than not, career-ending. Obviously Germany did not want to send back skilled aircrew who would be flying against their pilots again anytime soon.

No doubt Olve or someone similar will have more definite info on this.

Tim.

Re: Help from any Norwegians...
 

Thank you Tim.
Tony K

Re: Help from any Norwegians...
 

Hi Soren,

Http://www.lesbutler.ip3.co.uk/tony/tonywood.htm

There is lots here.

Have fun

Alex

Re: Help from any Norwegians...
 

Anyone know how many RAF A/C that was lost during circus 201
10 is a number mention earlier in this discussion
German claims seems to be 19 spitfires

RAF claims was 11 destroyed, 1 probable and 5 damaged
According to Lw Loss list (Genst.Qu. VI. abt) Lw lost 2 Bf 109 G1 from 11./JG 2.

Olve

Re: Help from any Norwegians...
 

Hi Olve

Sounds like a clear case once again of claims outweighing actual losses.

Tim.

Re: Help from any Norwegians...
 

Hei smithy

Ser ut som vi må ta de "offesielle" nedskytnings listene til 331 og 332 med en klype salt.
Kunne vært intresant å sammenligne ORB'ene og Lw tapslistene (møkkajobb men likevel)

Olve

(seems like the score board of 331(N) and 332(N) sqn is not that high as the official story tells us, A comparison of ORB and Lw loss list are needed here)

Re: Help from any Norwegians...
 

Akkurat Olve, du har rett.

Jeg har mer spørsmål om 331 og 332 og jeg håper du ikke har noe imot om jeg sender deg private meldinger om dette.

Takk for all hjelp!

Tim.

Re: Help from any Norwegians...
 

Hi ,

It wasn't 331 or 332 who's scores were high.

But 121 did have a high score of 6 destroyed and 1 probably destroyed.
And
133 did have 3 destroyed as did 222.
331 only claimed 2 FW190 as damaged
while
332 only claimed 1 Bf109 and 1 FW190 destroyed and 1 FW190 as damaged.

Alex

Re: Help from any Norwegians...
 

You are correct Alex
I was more thinking of the whole story of the 331 and 332

Best
olve

Re: Help from any Norwegians...
 

Smity - I have Kjeld Rønhofs autobiography 'Vi fløj for friheden' were he describes this combat in detail. It was his first operational sortie and he flew as Mohr's wingman. He was instructed to follow Mohrs tailwheel - wich he did until well after it was shot of.

Since I gather you read norwegian - you might dare yourself on a bit of Danish (Rønhof was Danish and I don't think his book was ever published in any other language).

If you want a scan of the relevant pages, then I'll be glad to supply them. PM an e-mail and I'll send them.

Best regards Lars Myrup Lassen aka LimaMike

Re: Help from any Norwegians...
 

Thanks Lars, PM incoming