German losses at Sola on 17 April 1940
 

Hello,

On 17 April 1940, during operation "Duck", Sola airfield was attacked both by the Royal Navy (HMS Suffolk) and the RAF.

The attack was started by a Hudson that dropped flares and incendiary bombs on the airfield, one setting fire to a Ju 52 of Stab KG 30 that was destroyed.

The bombing by HMS Suffolk missed the airifield but hit the adjacent seaplane station. Here 4 He 115 of 1./KüGr 106 were destroyed (all sources agree) and KGzbv 108 lost either 4 He 59s, or 5 He 59s and 1 Bv 138 depending of the sources.
Regarding the above losses, I have also found that three He 115 (WNr 1878, 1898 and 2087) are shown on the http://historisches-marinearchiv.de website as being heavily damaged this day at Stavanger (probably meaning Sola) but were repaired and later used. None of my other sources show damaged He 115 in this attack, and I suspect that at least three of the four He 115 listed as destroyed were repaired, maybe after being raised from the bottom of the sea.

Can someone confirm this ? And give details about the losses of KüGr 106 and KGzbv 108 this day ?

Once the Suffolk had left, according to the website http://www.world-war.co.uk/duck.php3, 12 Blenheims of 107 Sqn attacked the airfield and 1 Bf110C from 1./ZG 76 and 1 Ju52 were destroyed and 2 ground personnel killed.

In the loss list available for luftwaffe in Norway, the only Ju 52 lost in Sola this day is the one destroyed before by the Hudson, and a Bf 110 C of 1./ZG 76 was damaged beyond repair at Sola, but in a take-off accident, not by bombs. So I suspect that the losses listed in the link above for the Blenheim attack did not happen. Can someone confirm this, and that this raid killed 2 groundcrew (or were they killed during the shelling by Suffolk) ?

Thanks in advance

Re: German losses at Sola on 17 April 1940
 

hi,
maybe this help...

http://www.luftwaffe.no/SIG/Losses/tap40.html

regards

Re: German losses at Sola on 17 April 1940
 

Thanks but this is my source I called "the loss list available for luftwaffe in Norway".

Re: German losses at Sola on 17 April 1940
 

KGr.zbV 108 Blohm und VossBv138A-1 (150). Forced-landed damaged by own AA fire over Stavanger-Sola airfield during attack by No.107 Squadron 12.00 p.m. No crew casualties. Aircraft BH+AT 20% damaged but repairable.
A passenger aboard, member of the Seefliegerhorst-Komp.Travemünde, was wounded.

3./ZG76 Messerschmitt Bf110C-1. Wrecked in take-off accident during naval bombardment at Stavanger-Sola by cruiser Suffolk 7.50 a.m. Crew believed unhurt. Aircraft M8+CL 90% damaged - write-off.
A mechanic, Uffz Hans Zahnhausen (of 2./ZG76), was killed in this attack and a member of the signals staff of Fl.Korps X slightly injured.

I have no record of the loss of any Ju52 at Stavanger-Sola on this date and sources conflict on the exact details of losses suffered by KGr.zbV 108 and (supposedly) 1./KüFlGr.106. But, hopefully, someone will have reliable data on those ?

Re: German losses at Sola on 17 April 1940
 

Thanks Peter,

I was hoping that you had the loss list for this day. It seems difficult to make one.

I have to say that for me the loss of the Ju 52 destroyed in the initial Hudson attack was the most reliable of all, as everybody agreed on it. And you have no trace of it :(

Re: German losses at Sola on 17 April 1940
 

LW losses 17/4-40 at Sola See Norway:

KuFlGr 108: 3-4 He 59 (werknr 1834, 1898, 2796, ...)
KuFlGr 106: 4 He 115 (1878, 1879, 2087, ...)

Kjetil

Re: German losses at Sola on 17 April 1940
 

Thank you for your input Kjetilkorsnes & welcome to TOCH.

Your details of the three He59 lost conform with the KTB ObdM as quoted by another researcher so these should be beyond any doubt. But I think we may still have some confusion with the He115 losses which I currently have listed so:

1./KüFlGr.106 Three Heinkel He115B-1 (1878, 1879, 1898) and one He115C-1 (2087). Destroyed in naval bombardment of Stavanger-Sola airfield by cruiser Suffolk7.50 a.m. No crew casualties. Aircraft all 100% write-offs.

Re: German losses at Sola on 17 April 1940
 

A total of four He 115B aircraft of 1./106 were reported 100% damaged on
17.04.40, W.Nr. 1878, 1879, 1898 and 2087. However, all of them seems to have been repaired and continued their Luftwaffe service.

Regarding the He 59's quite a lot were reported 100% losses both in Stavanger-Sola and in Trondheim-Ilsvika. An evaluation party from
Walther Bachmann Flugzeugbau in Ribnitz (responsible for all second line
repair and conversions of the He 59) were sent to Norway to inspect the various aircraft. Their conclusion was that many were ok for repair.
I have the following three aircraft finally reported as 100% losses at Stavanger-Sola-See for 17.04.40: He 59D W.Nr. 1834 and 1998, as
well as He 59E W.Nr. 2797, all from K.G.z.b.V. 108.

Unfortunately, I have no info on losses at Stavanger-Sola-Land.

Re: German losses at Sola on 17 April 1940
 

Guys

The differences in the He 59 WNr bothers me

Kjetil (Peter confirms): 1834, 1898, 2796
Seaplanes: 1834, 1998, 2797

The Lela Presse book by Roba supports Kjetil's version, but Seaplanes is usually very accurate....

Cheers
Stig

Re: German losses at Sola on 17 April 1940
 

Thanks Seaplanes

From what I understand you said, the shelling by Suffolk finally only destroyed three He 59s, the other hit floatplanes (4 He 115s and maybe some He 59s) all being repaired later, even if they were first reported as 100% losses in German reports.

Re: German losses at Sola on 17 April 1940
 

According to my files He 59, 2796 was destroyed on 17 Apr 1940 at Stavanger-Sola-See and 2797 was damaged (reported 100 %, but flown later) on 3 May 1940 at Drontheim (Trondheim), but I might be wrong.

Matti

Re: German losses at Sola on 17 April 1940
 

I'v checked my sources a little bit more closely, and this what I have recorded on April 17th losses:

17.04.1940 I./ZG 76 Sola, Take off crash, Bf 110C, 90 %
17.04.1940 III./KGzbv1 Kristiansand, Missing, Ju 52, 100 %
17.04.1940 I./KG 30 Jonsvann, Crash, Ju 88A1, 100 %
17.04.1940 1./106 Sola, Enemy fire (on Ground), He 115 Wnr. 1878 100 %
17.04.1940 1./106 Sola, Enemy fire (on Ground), He 115 Wnr. 1879 100 %
17.04.1940 1./106 Sola, Enemy fire (on Ground), He 115 Wnr. 1898 100 %
17.04.1940 1./106 Sola, Enemy fire (on Ground), He 115 Wnr. 2087 100 %
17.04.1940 2./106 Haugesund, Emergency landing, Do 18 100 %
17.04.1940 1./406 North Sea, Shoot down, Do 18 Wnr. 836 100 %, crew MIA
17.04.1940 KGzbv 102 Schweden, Emergency landing, Ju 52 100 %
17.04.1940 KGzbv 108 Sola See, Flak (friendly), Bv 138 60 %
17.04.1940 ?/108 Bergen, Enemy fire (on Ground), He 59 Wnr. 1834 100%
17.04.1940 KGzbv 108 Sola See, Enemy fire (on Ground), He 59 Wnr. 1898 100%
17.04.1940 KGzbv 108 Sola See, Enemy fire (on Ground), He 59 Wnr. 2796 100 %
17.04.1940 KGzbv 108 Sola See, Enemy fire (on Ground), He 59 100% CORRECT?

Sorry for the confusion in my first posting. Could someone shed some light on the last He 59? It also seems to be confusion on Wnr. 1898, as both He 59 and He 115 are listed with this number. The offical german loss document is of poor quality and very difficult to read. According to Lagebericht (Lw) at OKW, 4 He 59 were lost at Sola-See.

Kjetil

Re: German losses at Sola on 17 April 1940
 

According to RL2III/884 the Lw losses in Denmark and Norway 17th April 1940:

KGzbv 108: 4 He 59 (3 in Stavanger and 1 in Bergen).
KGzbv 108: 2 Ju 52
KGzbv 108: 1 Bv 138
KGzbv 102: 1 Ju 52
1./KuFlGr 106: 4 He 115
2./KuFlGr 106: 1 Do 18
Teilstaffel 1/196: 2 Ar 196
Teilstaffel 5/ 196: 3 Ar 196
I/KG 30: 1 Ju 88
I/ZG 76: 1 Bf 110C

Kjetil

Re: German losses at Sola on 17 April 1940
 

Hello,

Regarding the TO crash of Bf110C-1 M8+CL:

"17 April 1940: 3./ZG76 Messerschmitt Bf110C-1. Wrecked in take-off accident during naval bombardment at Stavanger-Sola by cruiser Suffolk 7.50 a.m. Crew believed unhurt. Aircraft M8+CL 90% damaged - write-off."

Can anyone supply the names of the crew during the incident, or any photos of the crash? I have several photos of this a/c in the EoE Photo DB, but none depicting the crash.

Re: German losses at Sola on 17 April 1940
 

Hi, all

Regarding the He 59s, the first message is referenced as coming from the SKL, stating that 4 He 59 was destroyed 'on the ground' in Stavanger - I believe that the later losses as reported by KGzbV 108 stating that only 3 aircraft were indeed damaged in Stavanger is correct.

For the full text the first message reads:

SKL teilt mit, daß bei Beschiessung auf Stavanger am 17.IV. vier He 59 am Boden vernichtet, Besatzungen unverletzt; 2 He 115 beschädigt und die Anlagen Seeflugplatz Stavanger schwer beschädigt wurden.

Later; referenced from the wire transfer to LZGr See:

Flugzeugverluste KG zbV 108 bis 21.IV.40:

Am 17.IV. He 59 W.Nr. 1834, 1898 und 2796 verbrannt in Stavanger, bei Artilleriebeschiessung. He 59 W.Nr. 2856 am 1.IV. verbrannt in Bergen bei Luftangriff.

I am VERY certain that no He 59 was destroyed in Bergen due to an aerial attack on April 1st - thus I believe this is a typo and the last He 59 lost (but not in Stavanger, in Bergen) was WNr 2856. But we still have to decide on which date!

This also correspond with the entries in the RL 2 III 884, were the entry for KG zbV 108 for April 17th reads:

He 59 3 Totalverlust Stavanger Fdl.Beschuss
He 59 1 Totalverlust Bergen Fdl.Luftangriff

But in the GenQu 6 Abt records the He 59 WNr 2856 is referenced as being destroyed on April 21st, not on the 17th.

RL 2 III 884 has no KG zbV 108 loss for April 21st...

We will just have to dig out on which date there was an air raid on Bergen - hopefully not on both April 17th and April 21st - this far it seems I can only find reference to Bomber Command attacking Bergen on the 17th

Regards,
Andreas B

Re: German losses at Sola on 17 April 1940
 

Hello,

I'm going to leave it to Peter Cornwell to sort out the LW losses at Sola on 17 April for the EoE Working Group. I'm going to concentrate on the photo coverage of this action.

When I run the EoE Photo DB for 17.04.40, not one photo comes up with a damaged or destroyed LW a/c on that date. I suspect that there are a lot of photos out there, but that they have never been attributed to this specific date or location

When I run Sola AF, Stavanger, Norway, I get a lot of hits, including a number of crashes and wrecks, but many of these are of types not lost on April 17th. As would be expected for a busy wartime airfield, there was a large aircraft wreck dump at Sola, so many of the aircraft lost on April 17th are probably among the piles of wreckage. What is most needed is photos of the wrecks in situ on or about the time of the incidents. I'm not sure whether the seaplane losses would have ended up at the airfield wreck dump.

So I ask the help of all of you in acquiring and identifying photos from this action at Sola, including photos that may relate to the British warship (HMS Suffolk), conducting part of the attack that day.

Who can help?

Re: German losses at Sola on 17 April 1940
 

Thanks Guys

However the problem with the Heinkel WNr 1898 remains.
It can't be both a He 115 and a He 59

Cheers
Stig

Re: German losses at Sola on 17 April 1940
 

Re: German losses at Sola on 17 April 1940
 

Hi,
1898 is definitely a He 115. The WNr. block for the He 59 ends with 1855 and then restart with 1974.

Regards,
Norbert

Re: German losses at Sola on 17 April 1940
 

Thanks Norbert

Well, Seaplanes knows his business.... :)

Cheers
Stig

Re: German losses at Sola on 17 April 1940
 

Hello,

Lots of off-board activity in photographically documenting this event. Good coverage of the wrecked He59s, the memorial at the shelling site, and a crater made by one of the cruiser's shells. Another good overall photo of the He59s and He115s filling the harbor taken just prior to the events that day.

Still need photos of crashed/wrecked He115s, Bv138, Bf110 and Ju52. Please continue to contact me or post image info so we can wrap this one up. We're now about half way there for really good photo coverage of this story.

Re: German losses at Sola on 17 April 1940
 

Hello,

Göran Larsson has located information that the Bv138 damage actually took place on April 14th, but only was reported on the 17th. He's also provided a translation of an excellent German report published in a book of the bombardment of the harbor by the Suffolk and the events there from the German side. Great stuff. Still looking for other accounts and photos from that day.

Thanx to all who are sending me materials or posting on this thread.

Re: German losses at Sola on 17 April 1940
 

Hi,

German situation report of Air Corps no.X gives as follows:

In the morning seaplane airbase Stavanger-Sola was shelled by British naval forces. Four He 59s were destroyed and 2 He 59s damaged. 1 enemy aircraft (probably artillery spotter) was shot down.
At midday two air attacks had been flown against Stavanger airbase by six and 20 Blenheim bombers respectively. Numerous signal communication aircraft (JU 52) were destroyed, 1 Bf110 burned down. Two killed. The second attack was aborted early due to fighter resistance. Two enemy aircraft were shot down by I./ZG76.
No transport units (shore-based or seaplanes) were engaged on 14.4. due to weather.

Regards

Robert

Re: German losses at Sola on 17 April 1940
 

Robert,

Thanx. The Bv138 was damaged by German flak, not enemy action. Weather was the reason that it was forced to land at Stavanger, so the 14 April date still looks probable.

Re: German losses at Sola on 17 April 1940
 

Hello,

Here at the EoE project we've now taken the Bf138 off the table of loss/damages for 17 April 1940. Based upon some excellent work by Göran Larsson, Peter Cornwell has now changed our entry as follows:

"17 April 1940 Scandinavian Campaign Delete & Add to 14 April 1940 KGr.zbV 108 Blohm und Voss Bv138A-0 (150). Engaged on re-supply mission from Dassower-See to Norway but diverted to Stavanger due to bad weather. Badly damaged by own AA fire on approach and forced-landed off Stavanger-See. FF [ ] Kröplin, FF Lt [ ] Dobberthein, BM Ernst Schröder, BF Hänschen Schröder, and two gunners; one crewman wounded. Aircraft BH+AT 60% damaged but repairable.
One of three pre-production Bv138A-0 flying boats engaged on this sortie, this aircraft had first flown the previous September as D-AFFE. Impressed into Luftwaffe service with a scratch crew drawn from E-Stelle (See) Travemünde it was later recovered and brought ashore at Stavanger. Reported damaged on 17 April in official German records. (Kröplin account via Goran)"

What we need help with now is the ID of the first names of FF [ ] Kröplin, FF Lt [ ] Dobberthein, and we can sew this up. We have located two photos of this aircraft on the dock at Stavanger-Sola.

Thanx for your assistance, and especially to Göran for working this one through. We still have not resolved the actual fates, or acquired usable photos of the He115s reported destroyed that day. Are they at the bottom of the harbor at the seaplane anchorage, or were they removed and salvaged by the Germans during the war? We've also located at least one photo of one of the burned out He59 Seaplanes. Still no luck on the 3./ZG76 Bf110 reported crashed on TO at the airfield.

Who has further info to help us document the events and losses that day?

Re: German losses at Sola on 17 April 1940
 

Hello, all

As far as I can see we have later Luftwaffe records for all the Heinkel He 115s reported destroyed this day, so the damage was possibly highly exaggerated or they were repaired.

I talked to Seaplanes about this today, and it is possible that he will post some details before I have time to do so.

Regards,
Andreas B

Re: German losses at Sola on 17 April 1940
 

Hi,

another report:
From XXI Gruppe 17.4.40 22.07 hrs:
at 05.00 hrs English naval forces shelled Stavanger. Seaplane airbase was damaged. 4 aircraft were destroyed [...]

Regards

Robert