Ltn Bruno Kahlfuss 2./KG3 shot down 22/23 July 1940
 

Hi guys

Seeking information on the above and his crew, who were shot down on the night of 22/23 July 1940 off the South Coast.

I believe all were rescued, wounded, from their dinghy by German forces.

Has anyone further information, please?

Cheers
Brian

Re: Ltn Bruno Kahlfuss 2./KG3 shot down 22/23 July 1940
 

Brian,

Here is what we carry in the EoE LW Loss DB:

"23 July 1940: 2./KG3 Dornier Do17Z. Crashed in the Channel south of Brighton following attack by Blenheim night-fighter of the FIU (F/O G. Ashfield, P/O G.E. Morris, and Sgt R.H. Leyland) during sortie over the Sussex coast. FF Lt [ ] Kahlfub and three NCOs all rescued wounded. Aircraft 100% write-off.
This was the first victory for an aircraft using A.I. Mark IV airborne radar."


What is your source for the FN Bruno? We obviously need to pick that up in our entry.


Larry

Re: Ltn Bruno Kahlfuss 2./KG3 shot down 22/23 July 1940
 

Bruno comes from Larry & Doug's officer list

Re: Ltn Bruno Kahlfuss 2./KG3 shot down 22/23 July 1940
 

Thanks Chris.

Brian, I currently have this loss listed as follows:

2./ KG3 Dornier Do17Z. Shot down in the North Sea during sortie to attack convoy 'Pilot' 50 km east of Lowestoft and probably that attacked by F/L G. S. ff. Powell-Sheddon of No.242 Squadron 20 miles east of Yarmouth 5.22 a.m. BF Uffz Josef Kellmann and BM Obergefr Herbert Reinhardt (both Aufkl.Staffel Luftflotte 2 attached to Stabsstaffel KG3) rescued slightly wounded - admitted to hospital in Amsterdam, FF Lt Bruno Kahlfub and Fw[ ]Strecker both rescued unhurt. Aircraft 35% damaged but repairable.
This crew was picked up by the Seenotdienst 50 km east of Lowestoft at 10.30 a.m. next morning.

Re: Ltn Bruno Kahlfuss 2./KG3 shot down 22/23 July 1940
 

Hi Larry and Peter

I am now really confused!!

Re Kahlfuss aircraft: I assume aircraft was 100% since you (Peter) state that crew was rescued from dinghy, not 35% and repairable?

Re FIU Blenheim victory - which aircraft was this?

And since I have the attention of three experts - is the Hajo Herrmann balloon collision on 22 July fact or fiction?

Cheers
Brian

Re: Ltn Bruno Kahlfuss 2./KG3 shot down 22/23 July 1940
 

Brian

Might I suggest that 35%=100% This loss attributable to FIU has been perpetuated ever since it was assumed in Battle over Britain many moons ago and that Peter's deduction is now correct. Might I suggest that the FIU claim could have been optimitisc?

As to Herrmann, what would confirm it is his Flugbuch and a further confirmation that 7/KG 30 flew all the way to Plymouth to do what they did. I will admit that Plymouth seems to be a long (& dangerous) way to go for III/KG 30 just to drop mines

Re: Ltn Bruno Kahlfuss 2./KG3 shot down 22/23 July 1940
 

Mea Culpa KAHLFUSS was 100% loss obviously. Re HERRMANN I agree with Chris.

Re: Ltn Bruno Kahlfuss 2./KG3 shot down 22/23 July 1940
 

Hi guys

Most interesting! The following is an extract from F/O Glyn Ashfield's combat report following the FIU Blenheim combat:

"We were given a vector home by Polling and after 5/6 minutes crossed the coast east of Bognor. As the coast was crossed my observer P/O Morris reported a huge blaze behind and slightly to port and gave a p/p [probable place] of contact as 5 miles south of Bognor. This blaze lasted for about 5/10 minutes. P/O [Frank] Carey of 43 Squadron, who was on patrol at the time, saw the fire and resultant blaze on the water."

Any further ideas?

Cheers
Brian

Re: Ltn Bruno Kahlfuss 2./KG3 shot down 22/23 July 1940
 

Friendly fire? A 107 Sqn Blenheim was lost in the Channel 22-23 Jul according to Chorley, the body of one crewman being washed ashore and buried at Tangmere?

Re: Ltn Bruno Kahlfuss 2./KG3 shot down 22/23 July 1940
 

Brian,

You will find an account of Hajo Hermann's balloon strike on 22nd July, 1940 (including a direct quote), in the following publication:

German Air Force Bombers of the Second World War Two - Volume One.
Price,Alfred.
Chalfont St.Giles:Hylton Lacy,1968
pp.39-41.

The chapter is entitled: "Mines for Plymouth Sound".

Col.

Re: Ltn Bruno Kahlfuss 2./KG3 shot down 22/23 July 1940
 

Hi Col

Thanks for the lead. Any chance of scans of the relevant pages?

I don't have this book in my 1000+ collection!

Chris: Another extract from Ashfield's combat report:

"After about six minutes E/A sighted by observer P/O Morris to port and just below. A little H/T was lost placing E/A between the moon and ourselves. By fuselage silhouetted against moon A/C identified as Do17. No challenge given by us. I took station astern and although unable to see rudders characteristic, the light of exhaust flame distribution from E/A confirmed to my mind that A/C was not British."

Seems as though they identified their victim as a Do17!


Cheers
Brian
briancullauthor@fsmail.net

Re: Ltn Bruno Kahlfuss 2./KG3 shot down 22/23 July 1940
 

Brian,

Would love to oblige, but l don't possess a scanner, and do not have ready access to one.

Col.

Re: Ltn Bruno Kahlfuss 2./KG3 shot down 22/23 July 1940
 

Thanks Col

No problem - just found a copy on Amazon.

Cheers
Brian

Re: Ltn Bruno Kahlfuss 2./KG3 shot down 22/23 July 1940
 

No other losses that match-optimistic or Friendly Fire? Always wondered why a I/KG 3 ac was operating that far west when their usual stomping ground was where Peter said it crashed

Re: Ltn Bruno Kahlfuss 2./KG3 shot down 22/23 July 1940
 

Hi guys

I again return to this incident, since it is of historic importance and deserves a proper conclusion, methinks!

I note that the suggestion that the victim may have been a Blenheim of 107 Squadron, since it was reported missing, but Uffz Hans Busch of 8./JG51 seems to have accounted for this at 17:05 north of Calais!

Powell-Sheddon of 242 claimed a Do17 damaged at dawn was probably one of three aircraft of II/KG2 engaged and damaged by RAF fighters. Why was the aircraft of 2./KG3 not the victim of the FIU Blenheim as suggested by Peter in his tome?

I hope the experts can now clarify?

Cheers
Brian

Re: Ltn Bruno Kahlfuss 2./KG3 shot down 22/23 July 1940
 

From my records, Busch's claim was 1450 hrs 23 Jul 40 north of Ostende not night of 22 Jul 40. This probably accords with the combat with P/53 Sqn off Ostende which returned slightly damaged. I have no KG 2 ac damaged between 20 and 24 Jul 40 (latter date was when 2 5/KG 2 ac were damaged by 64 Sqn (0900 hrs) and 65 Sqn (1230 hrs). Sorry, still nothing conclusive to challenge Peter's information. In any case, for a body to be washed ashore in Sussex having been shot down off Calais or Ostende is very unlikely

Re: Ltn Bruno Kahlfuss 2./KG3 shot down 22/23 July 1940
 

Hi Brian,

I can add that 2 crew members were admitted to a hospital in Amsterdam after being rescued by a He 59 operating from Schellingwoude, directly North East of Amsterdam.
This indicates that the crew was picked up from the North Sea, the claim made by the FIU Blenheim was over The Channel, far beyond the operating area of ASR aircraft from Schellingwoude.


Regards,
Hans

Re: Ltn Bruno Kahlfuss 2./KG3 shot down 22/23 July 1940
 

Hi Hans

Thanks for that.

I have since established that 107 Squadron was flying night sorties to attack French airfields that night, and therefore Plt Off Watson's Blenheim was probably the FIU's victim since it FTR. Plus that the observer's body was washed ashore at Littlehampton.

Thanks to Peter and Chris for their advice.

Cheers
Brian

Re: Ltn Bruno Kahlfuss 2./KG3 shot down 22/23 July 1940
 

Sad but the indications are there albeit we will never be 100%