JG 53 Presentation Plaque
 

This item has just turned up and I'd appreciate any thoughts on it.

Not sure about its provenance, or whether it is genuine - although there is much about it that feels 'right'. But it could be a very clever fake.

It is in a slightly tatty presentation box, with a gold embossed drop-tail (early pattern) Luftwaffe Eagle. The blue velvet lined box has a leather lifting tab to lift the heavy plaque out of the box.

Thoughts, anyone?

Re: JG 53 Presentation Plaque
 

If I read it correctly, that was the plaque whereby Hermann Göring in his capacity of the Reichsminister for Aviation and the Highest Commanding Officer of the Luftwaffe congratulated the JG 53 officers (all of them?) on their promotion of 19 July 1940 - no doubt based on their performance from the beginning of the war until the end of the French campaign, where JG 53 emerged as the most successful Jagdgeschwader overall. Real or fake? It is just hard for me to tell.

Re: JG 53 Presentation Plaque
 

Certainly aspects of this seem more than a little odd. It is amongst a collection of such material that I am evaluating. Much of it is genuine. Some not.

I just don't know what to make of this piece. I'd say the box is certainly genuine. But has something been made to fit the box which may have been for something else?

And the wording about 'promotion' seems all a little curious.

Re: JG 53 Presentation Plaque
 

In my opinion, it's a fake, with several issues:
•It's intention is not clear. (For something that official, it should be)
•It's unspecific, as who wants to congratulate whom for what. If it's from HG to JG53, it shouldn't have the Pik-As emblem on top. It should have the Lw eagle. And then the whole thing for just one promotion of whom...?
•The layout is bad. It's not balanced. The used font look somewhat "forced"
•There is a severe typographical/ grammatical error: "Das offiziers - JG53". Mind the low key "o" of "offiziers". In German that should be written with a capital/ upper key "O", being a "Hauptwort/ Substantiv". Beside that the word is either incomplete or wrong (Die Offiziere des JG53 or Das Offizierskorp)
•Some of the words don't sound right (Beglückwünschung, Das offiziers - JG53)

This reminds me a bit of the faked Hitler diaries in the 80s. But then, this too is only my opinion.

Re: JG 53 Presentation Plaque
 

I think there can be little doubt that this is a fake! However, I wanted to get feedback before I gave information on the gathered and perceived wisdom to the owner of this item.

Thank you both for the helpful input.

Re: JG 53 Presentation Plaque
 

I read that as a plaque TO Göring, not from him. Was he elevated on 19th July 1940 to a higher rank?

Was 19th July 1940 one of the dates when a plethora of awards were issued? I know Rubensdörffer was awarded the EKI on 19/7/40.

Just a couple of thoughts...

Re: JG 53 Presentation Plaque
 

John Vasco is of course right. During World War II, Hermann Göring was the only man to hold the rank of Reichsmarschall, having been promoted on 19 July 1940, during the 1940 Field Marshal Ceremony by Adolf Hitler.

Re: JG 53 Presentation Plaque
 

This is what I meant. It is still (to me as a German) uncertain as to who congratulates whom. There is no indicator for which ever version. Both are possible -if put in this way- and that is what is so strange. In formally correct German (this plaque is [for] a formal event) it is and should be specified what (exactly) is being meant.
Also, why is it only an unspecified promotion and not a promotion to a what ever rank? The more, if HG was the receiving person.
Another thing, plaques are (usually) given by superiors, peers and/or friends and (usually) not by (unpecified?) subordinates. But even if this was given by subordinates, there is still the problem with the typographical errors.

One thing that we have not even asked yet, are there any hallmarks and/ or maker's mark(-s) on this piece? Something like this should have that...

Re: JG 53 Presentation Plaque
 

"Beglückwünschung für Eine Beförderung" - "Glückwunsch zur Beförderung" is correct German (but promontion to what?)
"Den 19 7 1940" - "(missing location), den 19.Juli 1940" would be a correct datum. This one is 21st century and not even German.
"Das offiziers(missing designation) - JG 53" - "Das Offizierskorps des JG 53" would be correct.
Wrong spelling, wrong date formula, missing designations - without any doubt a fake.

Re: JG 53 Presentation Plaque
 

Wrong. Otto Hintze's Iron Cross First Class was inscribed on the back: Rubs 19 7 40

When Otto Hintze was awarded the EKI there were none in stock at Erprobungsgruppe 210 at the time, so Rubensdörffer gave him his, with the inscription on the back.

So 19 7 40 is not incorrect. I have held and examined said EKI at Hintze's house in Munich.

Re: JG 53 Presentation Plaque
 

Hallo John - my main concern is not the form 19-7-1940, which is a very uncommon way of writing a date but the combination of "Den" which under normal circumstances would require a location such as "Berlin, den 19. Juli 1940" or "Frankfurt, den 19.07.40" or whatsoever. "Den 19-7-1940" standing alone is definitely wrong , even not unofficial.
No German official would write the way it is done on the plaque.
John, which punctuation did you observe on the EKI in between the digits? 19 7 1940, 19-7-40 or 19/7/1940
Interesting fact is that the aces of spades emblem began to disappear from the airplanes shortly afterwards and was replaced by a red ring around the nose.

Re: JG 53 Presentation Plaque
 

All interesting feedback. Thank you John Vasco, RolandF, ChrisMAg2 and Sidney etc.

I think this must be a fake, for many of the reasons specified.

However, a clever and elaborate attempt if it is fake.

It is very heavy, and seems to be silvered on brass. 21cm x 16cm.

On the reverse: J.GODET & SOHN

Re: JG 53 Presentation Plaque
 

Roland,

Exactly like this: 19 7 40

Nothing between the 19 and 7, and nothing between the 7 and 40.

I don't wish to impugn or denigrate members of JG 53, but it is possible that that plaque was done by groundcrew, and Officers, having seen the grammar on it, decided it should not be sent to HG. I say this bearing in mind that Andy may still be of the opinion that it is fake, given his vast knowledge in handling Luftwaffe artefacts.

Re: JG 53 Presentation Plaque
 

Andy,

Don't know whether you have checked this:
http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=488912

Quite interesting. Godet & Sohn were a very old, well-established company involved in military awards, etc.. The thread runs to 20 pages (which I have not read!) so there must be a lot of info on them.

I hope the above link takes you a little further in your quest to determine the authenticity or otherwise of the item.

Edit: At the bottom of the first page in that link it says as of 2011: "The on-line Berlin phone book shows there is currently a "Gebruder Godet & Co." presently at Wieland Strasse 16, 10629 Berlin (Charlottenburg); phone number +49 (030) 3244223
They are listed as being in the wholesale trade of books, magazines, newspapers, music and other printed matter."

Re: JG 53 Presentation Plaque
 

Andy,

I've scrolled through the 20 pages of the link I provided in my previous post. There's a hell of a lot of knowledge about Godet & Sohn there. I think it might be a good idea to post a photo of the JG 53 plaque in that thread, and also the back of it showing the Godet & Sohn mark. I would think that the knowledgeable ones on there would give you an answer in pretty short time if you do.

Hope this helps.

Re: JG 53 Presentation Plaque
 

Thank you John

On the other hand, perhaps we have accidentally stumbled upon the real reason for HG's disaffection with JG 53! :-)

Re: JG 53 Presentation Plaque
 

He read the plaque, sent it back to the silly bastards, and banished the Ace of Spades emblem! http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/imag...s/applause.gif http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/imag...es/biggrin.gif http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/images/smilies/dude.gif


On a serious note, Andy, I would be interested to know if that site can help you with the plaque.