Ju52 shot down two Blenheims?
 

Hi guys

Many years ago I saw a picture of a Ju52 (in a book or magazine) with the silhouettes of two Blenheims stencilled on its fin that its crew had claimed shot down in one sortie, 13 January 1942. The Ju52 was from 4./KGrzbV.500 and flown by Fw. Karl-Heinz Stahnke. One Blenheim from 113 Squadron was certainly their victim.

Can anyone help me find this picture.

Cheers
Brian

Re: Ju52 shot down two Blenheims?
 

These photos are from Karl Kössler's collection. They appeared in the small-format photo book series from alba/modell magazin, Foto Archiv #8 (c1981), page 94.

The rudder decoration showed a generic, diving fighterplane with white smoke streaming, beneath which were two Abschußbalken with cockades, and the date 13.1.42

The Stammkennzeichen of this machine was given as DA+AE, the photo revealed the marking on the rudder was "B 4 G"

I'd be curious to learn the Werknummer of this aircraft.

GRM

Re: Ju52 shot down two Blenheims?
 

GRM

Many thanks for the prompt response.

I assume that you have a copy - are you able to scan me the relevant picture, please?

Cheers
Brian

Re: Ju52 shot down two Blenheims?
 

According to Bomber Losses-Med-Gunby,the plane was Blenheim IV, Z7790,113 Sq.,piloted by PO R. Huggins, w crew of PO J.A. Hilton, and Sgt J.F. Lait. All KIA.
Shot down by return fire from JU52 66 km off Lampedsusa.

Re: Ju52 shot down two Blenheims?
 

4./KGrzbV500 transferred from the MTO to the eastern front during january (from 15.01.?) 1942
and took part in the demyansk airlift operations.
However a Wnr. isn't known at stammkennzeichen.de and the LEMB database.
I would like to see your pic of DA+AE very much too.

Thanks and
ATB
Armin

Re: Ju52 shot down two Blenheims?
 

DA+A. is shared with Ju86/He59 , so this plane manufactured before mid 1939

Rémi

Re: Ju52 shot down two Blenheims?
 

Hallo,

Something seems amiss here insofar as 113 Squadron had redeployed to Burma by the first week of January 1942 with 16 Blenheims and crews. I can find no 113 Squadron connection to the three crewmen on the CWGC website or on the excellent 113 Squadron website. I do not however have access to the 113 Squadron ORB.
They could have been one of the replacement Blenheims and crews arriving that day in Malta. Maybe they had been attached to 18 or 107 Squadrons operating there at the time, or to the newly arrived 21 Squadron. There is no reference to this serial number or any of the three men in any of the three squadron ORBs for January 1942.
Graham Warner in his splendid book on the Bristol Blenheim did note the 113 Squadron issue.

It will probably be a few years yet before the relevant AIR 81 file is available to the public. Meanwhile can anyone unravel this little mystery ?

Regards,

Martin Gleeson.

Re: Ju52 shot down two Blenheims?
 

Maybe David Gunby can help out as the 113 Sq reference for the loss of Z7790 comes from Med Bomber Losses.

Re: Ju52 shot down two Blenheims?
 

Malta: The Spitfire Year 1942 [Christopher Shores, Brian Cull, Nicola Malizia]
p 37 6-12 January overview : coming from Middle-East, a flight Blenheim IVF (20mm fitted in the nose) from 113 Squadron.
pp 38-39 13 January : account of the action.

Re: Ju52 shot down two Blenheims?
 

Thanks udf

I am the co-author of that book!!

Cheers
Brian

Re: Ju52 shot down two Blenheims?
 

Hmmm... Maybe somone here can help? Which Blenheim Squadrons operated on Malta from the middle of January 1942? I cannot find anything in the ORBs for Nos. 18, 21, 107 Squadrons.

Many thanks in advance!

All the best

Andreas

Re: Ju52 shot down two Blenheims?
 

Gentlemen,

This is something new to me. A Ju52 transport plane that fought back against well armed Allied planes and shot down two of them! I got pretty tired of reading reports of massive Ju52s being slaughtered in the air anyway. I wonder if there were more examples of German transport planes especially Ju52s defending themselves and shot down their opponents while flying?

Sincerely,

Edward L. Hsiao

Re: Ju52 shot down two Blenheims?
 

I believe there was one P-38 shot down by Ju52s during the Tunisian campaign in 1943. Good book Brian.

Re: Ju52 shot down two Blenheims?
 

This is from my notes I found that deals with P-38 losses during the Tunisian campaign from a posting on this site where they try and match up P-38 losses with german claims:
11 April 1943 1 P-38 of the 82nd FG was shot down by III/TG 3

Re: Ju52 shot down two Blenheims?
 

Dear Sir,

A good find indeed,thank you! I also wonder how the Ju-52s perform in defense against Soviet fighters on the Eastern Front. I'm there were a few Soviet planes that were shot down by Ju-52s in defense.

Sincerely,

Edward L. Hsiao

Re: Ju52 shot down two Blenheims?
 

My wife's uncle flew Wellingtons out of Malta. Many years ago he told her that he came up behind a German transport thinking it unarmed, whereupon a gunner knocked out one of his engines and he had to limp back to Malta. Sorry, no dates.

Re: Ju52 shot down two Blenheims?
 

Hi,

in two separate actions around Elba Insel in the Tyrrenian Sea 39 Sqn lost 3 Beaufighter to Ju52's rear gunner, 2 definitely shot down
P/O H.H. Deacon and P/O C.L. Heide in LX903 'T'
P/O E. Twiname and Sgt I.A. McLoed in LX779 'X and W/O A.T. Paterson and Sgt W.G.G. Shaw in LX862 'S' that crash landed at base.
TG 2 and 4 claimed 3 Beaufighter shot down:
per Tony Woods
24.09.43 Uffz. Jürgens IX./TG 2 Beaufighter 12 km. W. Insel Elba: no height 14.35 Film C. 2031/II
24.09.43 Uffz. Philipp Grüß IX./TG 4 Beaufighter 120 m. W. Insel Elba: no height 16.00 Film C. 2031/II
24.09.43 Uffz. Gerhard John IX./TG 4 Beaufighter 150 m. bei Poggio-Elba: no height 16.05 Film C. 2031/II

Vulnerable, slow, but still dangerous....

Alessandro