3./JG 54 loss summer 1941
 

Dear All,

I am looking for more details (i.e., date, pilot, W.Nr.,... etc.) on the loss of the Bf 109 F-2 "Yellow 11" of 3./JG 54 at Pleskau? sometime in the summer of 1941, during Operation Barbarossa. Any assistance in the matter will be greatly appreciated.

Source of the photographs: An expired eBay auction, also discussed on the LEMB here http://www.luftwaffe-experten.org/fo...17503&p=119693 on 12 June 2014.

Regards,
Sinisa

Re: 3./JG 54 loss summer 1941
 

Dear Sidney,

I have no answer but a comment. Your unit designation is interesting.
Here is another expired eBay auction, among others, picturing this accident.
Please, note the tactical code number style,
then, compare with another photo given by Prien in JFV 6.II, page 196; "Weissen 3" 1./JG54!

Hence:
- Did all Staffeln adopt that style during that period? Or if only one ... which one?
These are not the only pictured machines: I have that "11", that "3", one "8", one "9" and one "10" ...
- Or, since the 3./JG54 emblem seems to be overpainted; is it possible, too, that "our" eleven did simply not belong to 3./JG54 ... And code colour isn't Yellow.

Jochen provides us with only one loss in Pleskau (may be only in seller's dream) with 15% damage... Doesn't seem to be that one.

Best regards, Franck.

Re: 3./JG 54 loss summer 1941
 

Dear Franck,

Thank you for your reply. I don't think that the emblem was obliterated, just perhaps faded in the sun and covered with dust.

As for the numeral colour, I am not sure whether the Luftwaffe fighter units used the red colour for the aircraft numerals at this point in time. That leaves us with three colours, white, black and yellow. This particular "11" must have been applied in yellow.

Thank you also for the attached photo of the aircraft starboard side.

Regards,
Sinisa

Re: 3./JG 54 loss summer 1941
 

Thanks to Franck for identification. It is unfortunate that the engine cowling on the starboard side is in the open position, so we cannot be sure whether the 3./JG 54 emblem was sported on both port and starboard sides.

Source: eBay auction http://www.ebay.de/itm/Foto-Luftwaff...item3a9a2139df

Re: 3./JG 54 loss summer 1941
 

Yes indeed Sidney,

I (we?) already had this shot but full of "antifuchs" markings on it.
Hope you did notice the "Red 11" seller's own caption ? :)

But don't start another conversation about it please. Just a wink.

Regards, Franck.

Re: 3./JG 54 loss summer 1941
 

Hi,

this is 2./JG54`s aircraft!

Regards

Robert

Re: 3./JG 54 loss summer 1941
 

What is your source Robert please?

Re: 3./JG 54 loss summer 1941
 

Just see the photos of 2./JG54 starting from early 1940 and think!
3./JG54 always used standard style.

Regards

Robert

Re: 3./JG 54 loss summer 1941
 

For comparison purposes I herewith attach a photo of the "White outline 1" of 2./JG 54 from an expired eBay auction. I also thought that 2./JG 54 changed the appearance of its numerals at the beginning of Operation Barbarossa, as witnessed on Oblt. Reinhardt Hein's "Black 1" lost on 6 August 1941 (source: Jagdwaffe series of books, Volume 3.2 Operation Barbarossa, page 146). Perhaps in this particular case we are talking about the evolution of the numeral style with 3./JG 54?

Re: 3./JG 54 loss summer 1941
 

"11' was an early loss.

Regards

Robert

Re: 3./JG 54 loss summer 1941
 

I think I see what you mean - 2./JG 54 change the numeral style from "White-outline ..." just before Operation Barbarossa to "White-outline Red ..." by early July 1941 (as supposedly seen on this "11") to finally "White-outline Black ..." by 6 August 1941, while the 3./JG 54 numeral style remained standard "Black-outline Yellow..." (as witnessed on "Yellow 1" from the same period) throughout.

Regards,
Sinisa

Re: 3./JG 54 loss summer 1941
 

Hi Sinisa,

exactly!

Regards

Robert

Re: 3./JG 54 loss summer 1941
 

Wenn es eine GELBE 11 ist, kann es
die Bf-109 G-5 von Feldwebel Ungar/Hecker von der 9./JG 54 sein.

Re: 3./JG 54 loss summer 1941
 

According to info from Russel Fahey on Anton to Toni FB, the photo shows the 2./JG 54 Staffelkapitan., Oblt Siegfried Graf von Matuschka. I believe that the aircraft is a factory fresh Bf 109 F-2 delivered to the Staffel in late May or early June 1941. If that is right, the Staffel never applied the "White-outline Red ..." identification numerals. For more photos of the Staffel aircraft of the period, one can look in Prien and others JFV 5, page 122.

Re: 3./JG 54 loss summer 1941
 

Yes, it does seem to be Siegfried von Matuschka. In the photo I have found and attached he's the second from the left. (Yes, and he is that 'Sigi' in the file name.)

Re: 3./JG 54 loss summer 1941
 

That photo, post No.15 was taken later than the one I submitted, sometime in spring 1942, and the apparently newly delivered aircraft was a Bf 109 F-4.

Re: 3./JG 54 loss summer 1941
 

I'm sorry, Sidney, but I recognise pilots rather than planes (especially pilots I find handsome). :-) Of course, the photo I submitted must have been taken later, but I meant Siegfried von Matuschka, not the plane.

Re: 3./JG 54 loss summer 1941
 

Of course :). My remark was more like for the rest of the TOCH community. Anyhow, thank you for the attached photo.