HORST ADAMEIT LAST FLIGHT?
 

Hi, Please can you help?

The day of the ill-fated crash on the 8/8/44, Adameit flew an A-8 (modified A-5) (W.N. 155960) out of airbase near Wenden. Is this correct?
Also Adameit flew an A-6 (W.N. 550528) out of Dougavpils? Petserie? airbase, July 1944?
Is this correct?
If you have any info to add to this doesn't matter how trivial, I would love to know, thank you.
Does anybody know of a profile of Adameit's A-8 that I can look at, either in a book or decal sheet?

Just found, 'During a chase with a Soviet II-2 Sturmovik over the Soviet lines on 7th August 1944 he went missing near Dünaburg, probably killed in action. Clearly an error? Dunaburg was the name for Dougavpils.

Re: HORST ADAMEIT LAST FLIGHT?
 

I have allways wondered if any A-8s were modified/rebuilt A-5s, as they were quite different planes. The A-8 and A-9 had the 115 liter tank in the fuselage, and the A-5 could not have that installed. I guess that all A-5s were rebuilt as A-5s and nothing else.

I know that many believe that A-8s were rebuilt as D-9s, but I have not seen any evidence for that other than the D-9 prototypes.

Re: HORST ADAMEIT LAST FLIGHT?
 

Dynaburg (ger.) = Daugavpils (lit.) = Dzwinsk (pol.)

Re: HORST ADAMEIT LAST FLIGHT?
 

HORST ADAMEIT LAST FLIGHT?
 

Hello meeterhunter

Can I please ask you what is the source for your information that he was flying a Fw 190 A-8? All of the information that I have seen states that he was flying Fw 190 A-5 "Black <<" (W.Nr. 0155 960) of Stab I./JG 54 at the time of his loss and that this occurred in aerial combat with eight to 10 Il-2 Sturmovik ground-attack aircraft 10 kilometers east of Kreuzburg near Dünaburg. It does appear that he flew Fw 190 A-6 "Black <<" (W.Nr. 550 528) in July 1944 and I would assume that his last aircraft looked very similar to this one. I hope this helps.

Horrido!

Leo

Re: HORST ADAMEIT LAST FLIGHT?
 

Hi Leo,
Sorry I will try and track it down the answer to your A-8 question, but it sticks in the memory. The A-6 does look very similar to the 'A-8', going by Ron Cole's interpretation and comparing with Claes Sundin's A-6. But as you know just about every German plane had a different paint job.
One last thing, 155960 crashed east of ergli on 8/8/1944, didn't it?

poc ma hon!

Don

HORST ADAMEIT LAST FLIGHT?
 

Hello Don

I have always seen that he went missing on 7 August 1944. I./JG 54 had Fw 190 A-4, A-5, A-6, A-7 and A-8 subtypes on strength in August 1944 but the werknummer is definitely that of a Fw 190 A-5. I hope that you find everything you want to know about the last mission of this interesting ace.

Horrido!

Leo

Re: HORST ADAMEIT LAST FLIGHT?
 

Thanks Leo.

Re: HORST ADAMEIT LAST FLIGHT?
 

Hi,

Ademeit went missing mid-afternoon of 7 August 1944. The Germans recorded his aircraft as FW 190 A-6 WNr. 5960, although that is actually an A-5 WNr. Location was ten kilometres east of Kreuzburg, modern Krustpils, Latvia, just north of Jakobstadt, modern Jēkabpils, Latvia.

This was a I. Gruppe sweep from Riga-Skirotava, with several aerial victories claimed against Jak-9s and Il-2s.

Cheers,
Andrew A.
Air War Publications - www.airwarpublications.com/earticles

Re: HORST ADAMEIT LAST FLIGHT?
 

Hi,

His aircraft was an UPGRADED A5...this is without a doubt.

A wreck of an upgraded A5 was identified in this area (and also the only known loss in the area) a few years ago. This specific wreck had ALL the features of a A5 (specific to the A5), with A8 features...such as larger prop blades, radio, and armament.

It was 99% identified as Horst Ademeit...due to date of loss (eye witness accounts), wreck location, and type.

Re: HORST ADAMEIT LAST FLIGHT?
 

I can't say anything about this specific crash, but I still don't believe in an A-5 upgraded to an A-8. The only possibility I see is that it is a bastard A-5 with a complete wing from an A-8.

Re: HORST ADAMEIT LAST FLIGHT?
 

Hi Harrison, I knew I had read it somewhere. Do you mean the location of the crash was east of Ergli?
Regards, Don

Re: HORST ADAMEIT LAST FLIGHT?
 

Thanks Andrew. Looks like all the reports put the aircraft down in roughly the same
area. No GPS in those days and even today not many get plotted because of indiscriminate looting, or do they?
Regards, Don

HORST ADAMEIT LAST FLIGHT?
 

Hi guys

Interesting information that his aircraft was an upgraded Fw 190 A-5. I do wonder which propeller was the aircraft fitted with as it is my understanding that the Fw 190 A-series could be fitted with three types:

9-12067A (common metal propeller)
9-12153A (metal propeller with external pitch changing weights)
9-12176A (wooden larger area propeller)

The standard radio set for the Fw 190 A-5 was the FuG 16Z while that of the Fw 190 A-8 was the FuG 16ZY or FuG 16ZE in early production examples. I do know that it was rather common for propellers to be changed depending on pilot preference as for example many preferred the 9-12176A propeller to be fitted as it increased performance particularly in climb rate and acceleration and I have seen evidence of radio sets being upgraded such as Fw 190 A-3 fighters having the FuG 7 replaced by the FuG 16Z and the antenna and tail fin being changed to accommodate this upgrade. I have never yet come across an example of a Fw 190 having its armament upgraded but I have read of at least one Bf 109 G-4 having its MG 17 machine guns replaced by MG 131 machine guns as on the Bf 109 G-6 so obviously it could have happened with the radial-engined fighter. Any comments or corrections will be appreciated.

Horrido!

Leo

Re: HORST ADAMEIT LAST FLIGHT?
 

Sorry Micke D, but your conclusions are very wrong.

All aircraft were constantly upgraded as the years went on. This was standard practice.

Higher ranking officers also had priority on aircraft.

Why in the world in late 1944, would Horst Adameit...Kommodore of JG54...be flying a lower-grade A5, when the later A6 to A8 with better firepower and power plant was already available?

Easy answer...it was an upgraded model.

This specific A5 wreck had armour thickness of an A5, instrumentation and cockpit features of an A5, centerline drop tank and wings of an A5...but had a FuG16ZY, 4x MG151, and 2x MG131, and later props. So certainly an upgraded A5.

Re: HORST ADAMEIT LAST FLIGHT?
 

Harrison987,

One small point - in early August 1944 the major variants operated by I./J.G. 54 were the A-4, A-5, and A-6 (24 aircraft). The first A-8s were taken on strength in July, and at the start of August the Gruppe had only twelve of those. I'd suggest that A-5 WNr. 5960 was Ademeit's long-time aircraft, and he was yet to start using an A-8.

See Rodeike, p.175 for a photograph of the aircraft, which had previously served with II./Sch.G. 1.

Cheers,
Andrew A.
Air War Publications - www.airwarpublications.com/earticles

HORST ADAMEIT LAST FLIGHT?
 

Hi guys

One small point to add in that it is my understanding that both the Fw 190 A-5 and Fw 190 A-8 used the same BMW 801 D-2 engine producing 1,730 PS. It was only in mid-1944 that erhöhte Notleistung affording an increase of 250 PS began to be fitted. I do not want to come across as a doubting Thomas but I would like to know if the werknummer of this wreck was found to state with certainty that this was his aircraft. That an aircraft could have considerably upgraded is beyond any question as proven by this photograph of Fw 190 F-3 "Black -" (W.Nr. 670 067) at the end of the war.

http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=980107

Horrido!

Leo

Re: HORST ADAMEIT LAST FLIGHT?
 

Hi, Anyone any good with (serial) numbers?
?-3116 5-WAREN-8? ...more numbers below this set as well!
I don't know much about German serial numbers, thought I would throw it
in the mix!
Sorry, meant to say that these 'numbers' are from/attributed to Adameit's crashed aircraft 155960.

Re: HORST ADAMEIT LAST FLIGHT?
 

Harrison, I'm still not convinced that you could make an A-8 from an A-5, the fuselage is different, the A-8 has more hatches, and the wing and landing gear was strengthened on the A-6 for the introduction of the outer MG 151s.
I guess it's more likely that Adameit would have taken a factory built A-8 instead of a bastard aircraft.
Fo you have any type of evidense for this upgrading practice?

Re: HORST ADAMEIT LAST FLIGHT?
 

Might be out of my depth here, but would this obviously modified A-5 carry a R6 rocket pack?

Re: HORST ADAMEIT LAST FLIGHT?
 

Micke,

You are thinking too much...

Upgrading is NOT a total conversion.

You can easily keep an A6 fuselage, and upgrade to A8 "standard".

I am not talking about adding hatches or making it look "physically" like an A8...I am speaking about weaponry, electronics, powerplant, etc..

The wreck that was discovered is 100% proof of this. It was a A5 with A8 upgrades...and this was NOT uncommon.

The Me109 for example went though NUMEROUS changes, when the Me109K was designed in 1942 (when the G2 was still being built). At that time, they already started implementing K-4 designs and modifications into the early G...weaponry, cannon, canopy, engine, tail.

Upgrades were done both in the field AND at major repair facilities, as per government directive.

This is why you see a mixture of later and earlier implementations on various Fw190 models...blown and standard canopies...smaller/taller tails on various models...weaponry, etc.

You are confusing terminology.

"Upgrading" is NOT a total conversion...it is taking an early aircraft and upgrading it as close as possible to the current standard. it is not re-building it in all aspects to make it a later model - only upgrading what you have to current.

This was standard practice on all aircraft.

Re: HORST ADAMEIT LAST FLIGHT?
 

.....just as you can have a part for an earlier model added to a later model, as some parts don't change, but they still keep the same earlier model serial number. I know this is slightly different but you would be lucky to find an aircraft in WW2 that had all the same parts it came off the production line with.

Re: HORST ADAMEIT LAST FLIGHT?
 

I tend to agree that an A-5 would become an A-8 unless its a recycled airframe. Previous A-5 was damaged and rebuilt as an A-8.

I know Fw190A-5 W.Nr1228 was damaged in 1943 and sent back for repair and became the prototype for the S-5 two seater.

Also the Fw190F-8 at the NASM started life as an A-7? (from memory). The fuselage still carried the old W.Nr. It was then recycled and became a F-8. Standard practice.

Also the Fw190A-2 W.Nr 5425 recovered from the sea off Norway had the engine cooling slats of the A-4 onwards which were an improvement.

It might be possible to add A-6/A-7 or A-8 wings to an A-5 fuselage as all carried outer cannons and the electrical connections etc would be there.

Bf109E-1's became E-3's and then E-7's but these were all factory upgrades.

Never seen a photo and generally expect an upgrade (A-5 to A-8) like this to be from the factory.

regards

MS

Re: HORST ADAMEIT LAST FLIGHT?
 

Is the word 'WAREN' in amongst the numbers, a factory where the part was built? Will these numbers tell you the model of aircraft?

Re: HORST ADAMEIT LAST FLIGHT?
 

Hi Andrew, Sorry for not picking you up on this earlier. Which 'e' article in this photograph in?
Regards, Don

HORST ADAMEIT LAST FLIGHT?
 

Hi Mark

Actually the Fw 190 F-8 at the NASM was a new build aircraft and not recycled from an earlier aircraft. The confusion came about when the restoration team came across a data plate in the fuselage with the number 640 069 and assumed that this was the werknummer of an earlier aircraft. In fact, this was the werknummer for the fuselage and nothing more. Fw 190 F-8 (W.Nr. 931 884) was built by Norddeutsche Dornier-Werke and delivered to the Luftwaffe in mid-July 1944. I should correct an error of mine in post 14 where I wrote that I was not aware of an example of a Fw 190 having its armament upgraded but that was prior to remembering the photograph that I linked to in post 17 which is that of a Fw 190 F-3 that has been re-manufactured as a Fw 190 F-8 with the MG 17 machine guns replaced with MG 131 machine guns, later wings as evidenced by the pitot tube location and even the fuel fill point for the auxiliary tank in the fuselage. Interestingly, the original engine cowl was sustained as can be seen by the arrangement of the engine cowl latches.

Horrido!

Leo

Re: HORST ADAMEIT LAST FLIGHT?
 

Leo, I don't think the MG 131s worked with the old panel above the engine, as the MG 131s are spaced wider than the MG 17s. But I guess that the A-8/F-8 gun cover would fit on an earlier plane even if it don't line up with the panel in front of it.

HORST ADAMEIT LAST FLIGHT?
 

Hi Micke

You are absolutely correct in that the spacing of the MG 17 machine guns was narrower than that of the MG 131 machine guns and therefore the original cowl had to have been replaced by a later one. I saw the latches above what looked to be the access panel line and thought this meant the original engine cowl was preserved without realizing the gun spacing issue. For clarity here is a nice photograph of Fw 190 A-8 (W.Nr. 173 001) which shows this area of the aircraft very well. Many thanks for your comment and correction.

Horrido!

Leo

Re: HORST ADAMEIT LAST FLIGHT?
 

Don,

The photograph of this aircraft does not appear in any of our eArticles. It is on page 175 of Peter Rodeike's Focke-Wulf 190 book.

Cheers,
Andrew A.
Air War Publications - www.airwarpublications.com/earticles

Re: HORST ADAMEIT LAST FLIGHT?
 

Thanks Andrew, Don

Re: HORST ADAMEIT LAST FLIGHT?
 

Attachment 10970Have I spelled the man's name incorrectly? ..should it be Ademeit? I apologize if I have. It's looks like Ademeit was a bit of an outsider when it came to the hierarchy of JG54 aces, as this picture shows, maybe because he was a 'young gun' on his way up? Adameit is at the back, 4th from the left.
Don

Re: HORST ADAMEIT LAST FLIGHT?
 

Good evening Gentlemen,

was Horst Ademeit flying a Bf109 or an Fw190 in Mar/Apr1943 and on 6Aug1944, respectively ?

Cheers,

Michael

Re: HORST ADAMEIT LAST FLIGHT?
 

Dear Harrison,
If you have so much information about Horst Ademeit, do you perhaps happen to know if he was married?

Thank you very much in advance.
Teresa

Re: HORST ADAMEIT LAST FLIGHT?
 

Hello Teresa,

do you want to locate his possible widow ?

Michael

No, I don't think his widow would be still alive, even if he had actually been married. The problem is that I love fighter pilots in bulk (as you know, I love Friedrich Rupp the most, but other pilots fascinate me too) and I feel a bit uncomfortable if I have a crush on a pilot and it turns out he was married.
Maybe I should fall in love with a cucumber? Cucumbers are better than men because you'll never find out a cucumber is married.

Maybe I should consider buying this book https://www.etsy.com/au/listing/6060...n-man-becaouse

By the way, what if Horst Ademeit had been a cucumber... :-)

Re: HORST ADAMEIT LAST FLIGHT?
 

Hello Teresa,

I think in many cases it's difficult to find out if an ace was not married.
You might identify the bachelors among those who were KIA if you have their obituaries.

Have a nice Tuesday,

Michael

Re: HORST ADAMEIT LAST FLIGHT?
 

Western European countries have been recording births, deaths and mariages for over a century, either through churches or government departments, as well as in censuses. There are huge online resources where this kind of information can be sought and exchanged.

Re: HORST ADAMEIT LAST FLIGHT?
 

Dear Nick,
The problem is that with the new EU data protection law I can't have access to such databases. Even some websites have been turned off.

Re: HORST ADAMEIT LAST FLIGHT?
 

Dear Michael,
Thank you for your answers. This is one of the things I am hoping for. If someone has his obituary or Verlustmeldung, it will be clear whether, for example, his parents or his wife (if he had one) were informed about his death. I have already got such answers for Friedrich Rupp, Hans Beisswenger and Joachim Wandel.

Best regards,
Teresa

Re: HORST ADAMEIT LAST FLIGHT?
 

The EDPR is more often cited than read, I suspect. It applies in the UK and sites such as ancestry.com and findmypast.co.uk have categorically not been turned off, anymore than have the dedicated resources of the National Archives (https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/...family-history). Marriages are formally recorded by the state and by religious institutions, they are announced publicly via newspapers etc. and usually mentioned when deaths are announced and in obituaries. There are also trade directories, old telephone books and newpspapers. If you wish to establish the marital status of a person born in (say) the 1920s then numerous sources remain open to you beyond this forum.