Bv 138 loss 23 May 1944
 

Hello,

On 23 May 1944 the Bv 138 C-1 WNr 310139 of 1./Flg.Erg.Gr.(See) force landed south of the island of Bornholm after meeting a "Soviet" aircraft that set one engine on fire. The crew was saved.

The above is the same in both sources I have. At this date, I will be amazed that a Soviet aircraft would have flown in the area, and AFAIK there was no US or British claim this day in this area.

So I wonder what really happened.

Thanks in advance

Re: Bv 138 loss 23 May 1944
 

Laurent

Interestingly enough none of my two sources (both French) mention any Soviet involvement, only the engine fire.

Cheers
Stig

Re: Bv 138 loss 23 May 1944
 

Hello Stig,

I guess one of your French sources is "Les hydravions de la Luftwaffe" ? A friend of mine send me pictures of the book and yes, there is no Soviet aircraft involved.

Thanks

Re: Bv 138 loss 23 May 1944
 

Indeed it is Laurent :)

Cheers
Stig

Re: Bv 138 loss 23 May 1944
 

In fact seems what's happened was more interesting/ at least to see/, than an appearance of a soviet plane, flying-boot try to make some forcedlanding but rough sea made it to bump-up some 60 meters nd then crashed

Remi

Re: Bv 138 loss 23 May 1944
 

Here is what I have - it doesn't seem to compute based on what is being discussed.

Bv 138C-1, 0310139, Kopp, Hptm. Joachim, , , 1., Fl.Erg.Gr. (See) Kamp, , 6H+LH, DF+NS, , 23-May-44, KIA due to Luftkampf. Bw KIA, Bs & Bf MIA., , Dänemark, KTB Gen.d.Lw.b.Ob.d.M.; Lw Verband #28, p.23, , Bornholm, 100%, F, B Ofhr. Hans Hagelstein, Bw Fw. Wilhelm Benders, Bs Uffz. Richard Schmidt & Bf Gefr. Heinz Pietzner, ,

Re: Bv 138 loss 23 May 1944
 

Thanks RT and Jim for adding new data to this case... even if it adds some confusion.

By the way, Jim, you're the first so far to have crew names. So far the only source that spoke of the crew (the Nordic Luftwaffe lost list) had no casualty, but I think you are more reliable here.

But again these is this Luftkampf affair, and I don't see against who it could have been fought...

Re: Bv 138 loss 23 May 1944
 

Hi,

From the KTB Gen.d.Lw.b.Ob.d.M.:

"23.5. BV 138 der Erg.K.Fl.Staffel (F) Kopenhagen, 100% Bruch bei Notlandung Ostseegebiet südl. Bornholm bei Überseeflug. Ursache unbekannt.
Hptm. Kopp, Joachim F tot
Obfhr. (Tr.) Hagelstein, Hans B unverl.
Fw. Benders, Wilhlem [sic] BW tot
Uffz. Schmidt, Richard BS vermisst
gefr. Pietzner, Heinz BF vermisst"

So no mention of enemy involvement there.

Cheers,
Andrew A.
Air War Publications - www.airwarpublications.com/earticles

Re: Bv 138 loss 23 May 1944
 

Hello Laurent

I see again that you refer to "Nordic lost list" and indicate that it is not reliable. It is indeed a very old list with black holes and I have therefore withdrawn it from the internet seveal years ago. I would be very glad if you could respect this. My updated Register on Luftwaffe and Allied losses in the Nordic area (not on the internet) has the same info as Andrew mentioned.
No reason for the loss was given by the Germans and we would probably never know what happen. By the way in the first part of 1944 Russian long range aircraft regulary patroled the Baltic Sea..

Greetings from Norway
Knut

Re: Bv 138 loss 23 May 1944
 

Knut,

I apologize if you feel that I presented you work as unreliable. That was not my point.

My source was actually the former Nordic loss list you put on the Internet years ago, and that is now no more online. Someone used it to enter losses in the www.crashplace.de database, and as an administrator of this database, I am working to complete each entry and list sources used.

I understand fully that your list then was a "work in progress", as is any history work. Another example that I will compare is Prien's books about German fighters. His history books of JG 53 and so on are now outdate and the recent Jagfliegerverbande by the same author have corrected many things about claims and losses.

Best regards, and thanks for sharing your files on the web, in the past and today.

Re: Bv 138 loss 23 May 1944
 

According to my source (KTB Gen.d.Lw.b.Ob.d.M./O.Qu. for 27.May 1944), the aircraft was on a routine training flight south of Bornholm, when the starboard engine caught fire in 500 meters altitude. A forced landing was carried out, but due to wind and heavy seas, the plane was thrown up in the air and crashed on impact with the water after some 60 meters in the air. Three crewmembers were rescued by a nearby German submarine, Hptm. Kopp and Fw. Benders both dead and Obfhr. Hans Hagelstein unhurt. There is no mention of involvement of enemy aircraft.
This particular aircraft started service as K6+AL of 3./406 and was passed on to 1./Fl.Erg.Gr. (See) in Copenhagen on 31.05.1943 and became 6H+LH.
Some sources give the date of death of Hptm. Joachim Kopp as 23.06.1944.

Re: Bv 138 loss 23 May 1944
 

Hi Seaplane

Thank you very much for this informations. I think it provre what happen to this flying boat out probably from Kopenhagen See.
Looking always forward to learn more about what happen to all the German seaplanes during the war.

Greetings

Knut

Re: Bv 138 loss 23 May 1944
 

Thanks seaplanes

Re: Bv 138 loss 23 May 1944
 

It was U-873 (Kptlt Friedrich Steinhoff) that picked up one survivor and two bodies from a crashed Bv 138 in naval grid AO8432 (approx. 55°27N, 16°45E) at 10.55 hrs on 23 May 1944 and landed them at Pillau in the evening.

Re: Bv 138 loss 23 May 1944
 

You hv a message Knut !

Rémi

Re: Bv 138 loss 23 May 1944
 

Thanks Rainer for this added data.