Bf109g-14 WNr.463224 ?
 

Good morning Gents,

What about that machine?
Thanks for any comment you will provide.

Regards, Franck.

Re: Bf109g-14 WNr.463224 ?
 

Hi there young man!

Bf 109 G-14 W.Nr. 463 224 "Gelbe Dreieck", Uffz. Willi Drude, 7./JG 77, deserted 26 Dec 1944 to RAF Dyce whilst accomplishing a training flight. Source: Gen.Qu.6.Abt.-BA-MA Signatur RL 2 III/1197, p.54; Prien, JG 77, IV, p.2235; Blitz, Then & Now, p.495; AI2(G) serial 261. Information courtesy of George Morrison.

Would love to see a pic from this machine...

Cheers
Marc

Re: Bf109g-14 WNr.463224 ?
 

Hello guys,

perhaps this is usefull:

The aircraft was on a ferry-flight for further use at JG5 in Norway.
And it was one of the Erla Bf109G14s built without MW-50 device. The british reports clearly remarks, that it was fully wired up for MW-50, but had no tank installed.

Carl

Re: Bf109g-14 WNr.463224 ?
 

Thanks Carl and Marc,

I'll maybe get further answer but I'm eager to put some comments/questions here.

- From where did Drude took off?
- "The aircraft was on a ferry-flight for further use at JG5 in Norway" Yep!
It happens that in GRM list we can find the following:
16/12/1944, Uffz. Drude, IV./JG5, Missing for unkown cause, "Ort unbekannt", Komm.Gen.d.Dt.Lw.i.Norwegen, BA-MA Signatur RL 2 III/1170, p.51
... Same Drude??
- Last, but not the least, "Gelbe Dreieck" ??? JG5?, JG77 or ... Ergänzungs-Nachtjagdgruppe (einmot.), later 2./EJG2, machine, since the only known - by me - unit displaying such tactical markings was 2./EJG2 (see LwiF N.23) hence, maybe, ( a lot of maybe) Erg.NJGr.
...
But since I./EJG2 was created on 2/11/1944 .. don't need to use Erg.NJGr. ...

- Any photo available? None?

Re: Bf109g-14 WNr.463224 ?
 

Further reading found on Internet via Drude's son ...

… Came across a book on-line titled: An Old Airman's Tale by Leslie "Uncle Will" Hay.

Apparently he and others were sitting on the runway at Dyce when Drude came in and crash landed on 12/26/44. He writes it up like this:
“He and others spot a 109 wagging it's wings while coming in for a landing. The plane bounced several times before flipping over on it's back and all these guys run over and lift up the plane allowing dad, who was unhurt, to climb out. He goes on to say: You'll never believe this, but the first thing he (Drude) did was to take out his comb, look in his mirror and comb his blonde, wavy hair! There were handshakes all around.”
… Drude told that the first thing he did was shut off the fuel and magneto to prevent a possible fire.
Being short of fuel by the way, has absolutely nothing to do with making a crash landing, but a boggy
pot holed runway does…
He (uncle Will) goes on to say:
“Uffz. Willi Drude took off from Aalborg at approx. 13:50 hrs in ME109G-14 on 26.12.44 on a flight to Stavanger. Drude had starting problems and delayed take off. Then the engine started (so no plane substitution was made), instead of following the formation, he took the opportunity to defect.

Flying initially at 1,000 metres in a NW direction, he used the T/T (whatever that is) to inform his base that he was ditching; he then descended to 25 metres and headed due west to Dyce. At 15:20 hrs, on approaching the airfield he climbed to 200 metres and waggled his wings indicating that he was about to land. The aircraft touched down, bounced violently several times and turned over on it's back.”

- So not really a training flight but a delivery flight.
- No photos? Sure? ... :)

Re: Bf109g-14 WNr.463224 ?
 

That Young Uffz. ...

Re: Bf109g-14 WNr.463224 ?
 

Regarding this "Gelbes Dreieck"-marking: My guess would be that Willi Drude's Bf 109 was new and unmarked (ferry flight), so the yellow triangle was the prominent C3 octane fuel marking on its port side. This would also be in line with Carl's MW50 info...

Cheers,
Christian

Re: Bf109g-14 WNr.463224 ?
 

Interesting explanation Christian.

But from where comes this description:
Gen.Qu.6.Abt.-BA-MA Signatur RL 2 III/1197?
or
AI2.(g)? with a translation in German from English for Prien's publication reason...
Because I'm not thinking the German clerck wasn't aware about tactical codes in use.

Here is one document where we can read Aalborg, then Stavanger, then something the last part of Uberfuhrung and nothing more ...

By the way, his full name was Wilhelm Karl Drude.

Re: Bf109g-14 WNr.463224 ?
 

I think I read a Crashed enemy aircraft report on this one and I seem to recall that the triangle was described as having rough edges or being roughly painted. My thought was an over painted chevron...

Re: Bf109g-14 WNr.463224 ?
 

Hi Anders,

I think I have a book home Marc gave me three years ago ... Will check tomorrow... This report must be cited ...

Re: Bf109g-14 WNr.463224 ?
 

Re: Bf109g-14 WNr.463224 ?
 

Thanks Carl for the report I don't need to look for!

At least there is a strong possibility the famous "Gelbe Dreieck" has been translated from English report by Dr. Prien to include it in his publication.
And I'm still eager to know what was written in Gen.Qu.6.Abt.-BA-MA Signatur RL 2 III/1197, p.54.

Even the Kracker list didn't dare to write "Gelbe Dreieck" ... Just "Yellow ?".

This said:

We have a strange situation here:

Uffz. Wilhelm “Willi” Karl Drude did belong to II./JG 77 when this incident occurred. In the meantime, II./JG 77 was based, from 9/12/1944 to 17/12/1944, at Werl (700km south of Aalborg) and, from 17/12 to 29/12/1944 at Mühlheim (I don’t know which Mühlheim!), let’s say 750km south to Aalborg for the closest …

What the hell he was doing there, making a flight delivery for JG 5? Alone or with others?

Then, as I wrote above, we have another loss, of another Uffz. Drude, lost on mysterious circumstances on 16/12/1944 (Komm.Gen.d.Dt.Lw.i.Norwegen, BA-MA Signatur RL 2 III/1170, p.51)… And that Drude DID belong effectively to IV./JG 5 which was based in Stavanger from 6/11/1944 to 3/1945.

Funny when we do consider the last comment posted by Carl concerning the II./JG77 Drude's machine:
“I can add this: The Erla-built aircraft had its BAL-Abnahme on 5. Nov 1944. Its Werknummer is within a large batch of aircraft, for which I only have reports from training-units and a very few from the end of the war with JG5 (Werknummern are all within 463181 to 463248). They presumably all were never equipped with MW 50 and were delivered directly to training- units (and a few to JG5).”
…

Re: Bf109g-14 WNr.463224 ?
 

Hello,
the correct place is Mülheim an der Ruhr, near the City of Dortmund.
Airfield hold part of JG 77 and different Nightfighters during Ardennen-Offensive. So there is no problem flying across the Nederlands to Great Britain.
h.

Re: Bf109g-14 WNr.463224 ?
 

Yes Hans,

Eventually its the one closest to Aalborg.
Indeed there is no problem to fly to England.

I wrote ... Why, being in II./JG77 he had to deliver a machine from Aalborg to JG5 in Stavanger?..
When by chance we have another Drude, in IV./JG5 for who we know nothing.
and When, by chance, the II./JG77 Drude flew a machine Inside a batch etc etc read Carl post please. And mines.

Talking about school (Erg. is a school isn't it?) machines I just want to remember you THAT: LiF23. Drawing by Sundin.
More or less 60cm base Dreieck.

Regards, Franck.

Re: Bf109g-14 WNr.463224 ?
 

Hello Frank,
the word "Ergängzung" mean Replacement. It is not a school by meaning, more a unit where Flugzeugführer became Combat Ready before they move to the "Fronteinsatz".
Yes, I know LiF 23, the old Luftwaffe is always good for new msyteries!!!
For me, the "Dreieck" (even yellow or black or..) is the symbol for "Schlachtflieger" (Ground Attack).
It's new for me that a Fighterpilot deliver an plane to another unit then his own!
Normaly thats a duty for the boys from FlüG 1 (Fliegerüberführungsgeschwader 1). I known that pilots from JG 77 at that time where sent to the Messerschmitt factory (Regensburg, Amberg etc.) for new 109's and need more than an week for the return!!
h.

Re: Bf109g-14 WNr.463224 ?
 

Hello guys,

I have looked through my files and found ADI (K) Report 67/1945. Dude is not named, but he certainly is the pilot concerned. Some quotes:

"8 Bf 109 G14s took off from Aalborg at 1350 hours n a flight to Stavanger. Pilot had difficulty with engine at the start and lost the other aircraft and he decided to seize the opportunity.

The pilot had servered his connection with JG 77 on December 1944 when he and two other pilots from 7th Staffel were sent by rail from their base at Eggersdorf to Berlin where they met 17 other pilots from the other Gruppen of JG 77. These 20 pilots where then informed that they had been posted to JG 5 in Norway and where then sent by train to Vaerloese."

So Dude and his a/c were allocated to JG 5, were they never arrived. For that reason the NVM was filed at JG 77.

Unfortunately I only have the first page of the ADI(K) report. Is there anybody, who could provide the missing pages?

Looking at the strength-returns of IV/JG5 is also quite interesting:

On 20th December 1944 it had 35 a/c (6 of them not combat ready)and 42 pilots (only 26 combat ready). On 31st December 1944 it was 49 a/c (26 not combat ready) and 54 pilots (only 30 combat ready). Additionaly Stab IV/JG 5 had 4 a/c and pilots on both dates. This data presumably shows the strengthening of the Gruppe with personal from JG77 and new a/c.

Greetings
Carl

Re: Bf109g-14 WNr.463224 ?
 

Hello,

Hey Carl! Start to "smell" very good this story!
When did they have been send from Eggersdorf to Berlin? Well before 26/12 I presume. Before 16/12 should be very good, better .. Hence the 1st Drude loss of that day...

Whatever, this does confirm what his son wrote, i.e. his father said him that he was sent directly from Eggersdorf to ... Stavanger (sic)
If this did happen when the whole unit left Eggersdorf on 9/11 or better after a stay at Juterbog, then we are close to something....

The whole report should be welcome now! :)

Regards, Franck.

Re: Bf109g-14 WNr.463224 ?
 

Franck,

it's in the report, I just forget to type it. The report is:
"The pilot had servered his connection with JG 77 on 15th December 1944".
Sorry, my fault.

And Dude's memory it correct. Report says that "pilots were instructed at briefing to fly on a direct course to Christiansund and then to follow the coast of Norway to Stavanger".

Greetings
Carl

Re: Bf109g-14 WNr.463224 ?
 

Hello Carl,

Perfect then!

Where he got this "Gelbe Dreieck"?? :)
It's noticeable that II./JG77 knew it's WNr. since it's in the report.

Cheers, Franck!

Re: Bf109g-14 WNr.463224 ?
 

Has to be Christiansand, Christiansund is north western Norway. We write it today as Kristiansand S and Kristansund N, to differentiate more.