Hptm Gerhard Plischke, + 17 Nov 39
 

There are numerous ways of spelling this officer's name and confusion as to the unit he was with. Some records say 3/KG 51, others say 8/KG 51 whilst another even says 8/KG 1 (his pilot on the day of his death was Lt Rudolf Henne who later flew with 5/KG 51 but Kaiser's RK book says Henne was with 8/KG 1 on 17 Nov 39). Any ideas anyone?

Re: Hptm Gerhard Plischke, + 17 Nov 39
 

Hptm. Plischke was killed that day as Staffelkapitän of 8./KG 51.

Re: Hptm Gerhard Plischke, + 17 Nov 39
 

Chris G:

17 Nov 39: flew a night leaflet mission to the Bordeaux-Marseille area; one He 111 crashed in northern Italy on the return flight killing Hptm. Gerhard Plischke and one other crew member. (This is from my unit notes and probably taken from Shores.)

Chris Shores in his Fledgling Beagles says on p.112:

"Hpt Gerhard Plischke, a pilot of an 8. Staffel [KG 51 - ed.] aircraft, force-landed at Unterlillach, just over the Austro-Italian frontier, the pilot being killed and one other member of the crew injured."

L.

Nachschrift: Here is what we have in our Officer Careers listings. I will ask Doug S. if he remembers where he got this from as the information is really, really bad.

Re: Hptm Gerhard Plischke, + 17 Nov 39
 

Thanks both-you understand my questioning especially when you look at Die Ritterkreuzträger der Kampfflieger Band 1 pages 200-201 where the 8/KG 1 comes in!

Re: Hptm Gerhard Plischke, + 17 Nov 39
 

III./KG 1 and thus 8. Staffel were not yet formed on 17 November 1939.



L.

Re: Hptm Gerhard Plischke, + 17 Nov 39
 

Who would be an aviation historian, eh?

Re: Hptm Gerhard Plischke, + 17 Nov 39
 

This sent me into a tizzy! After rummaging about, I conclude that the part that Larry refers to is an apparent temporary note that was to have been deleted after hashing out some issue. Sometimes I miss these in the final edit prior to release. Normally these notes are conspicuously flagged for easy removal. Sorry about that. However, the correct version does appear a little further on:

PLOESCHKE, G. 16.11.39 Hptm., Staka 3./KG 51 KIA - He 111 H abandoned over Italian/Austrian border after disorientation in storm conditions during a leaflet raid to Bordeaux and Marseille.

As for source for this, it appears that my main source was on page 116 of:
Cornwell, Peter D. The Battle of France Then and Now (Old Harrow: After the Battle, 2007). ISBN: 9-781870-067652.

I shall clean out the offending temporary note.

Is everyone happy now?

Re: Hptm Gerhard Plischke, + 17 Nov 39
 

Thanks, Douglas, because we now know that this is Shores vs Cornwell. Hopefully, one or both of them will step forward and reveal their sources so we can try to get to the bottom of this. Should they fail to do so, a detachment of Hell's Angels, Banditos, Outlaws and Devil's Disciples mounted on Harleys can pay them a visit and make then an offer they can't refuse. :)

L.

Re: Hptm Gerhard Plischke, + 17 Nov 39
 

Larry,

Peter won't be available for a couple of weeks to reply for his part, so please don't bring down the incantations of hell on his head until he has an opportunity to reply.

In the meantime, here is our most recent (hopefully) EoE LW Loss listing for this one:

"17 November 1939: 3./KG51 Heinkel He111H. Lost bearings due to severe storm conditions during leaflet-dropping sortie to Marseille and Bordeaux, and finally abandoned over the Austrian/Italian frontier near Untertillach, south-west of Lienz. (Beo) Hptmn Gerhard Ploeschke (Staffelkapitän) killed. (Ff) Lt Rudolf Henne baled out injured, rest of crew baled out unhurt. Aircraft 100% write-off."

Re: Hptm Gerhard Plischke, + 17 Nov 39
 

Not AFK just yet. My source for the entry quoted by Larry was the GQM Returns which quotes the unit as 3./KG51 and the surname of the Stakap as 'PLOESCHKE'. However, DIERICH provides 'PLISCHKE' and Stakap of 8./KG51 so 'you pays your money & takes your choice'. Unfortunately, neither variation features in the VDK database nor in my 1944 edition of the Dienstalterliste so I am unable to verify one way or another though I do note that Matti also has him listed as PLISCHKE and Stakap of 3./KG51. So call off the hounds - the approaching chords of Black Betty are deafening.

Re: Hptm Gerhard Plischke, + 17 Nov 39
 

For what it's worth, the German telephone system has 600+ entries for Plischke and one for Plöschke.

Re: Hptm Gerhard Plischke, + 17 Nov 39
 

Can I ask a question since I am a bit confused?

Hopefully Larry's friends can be diverted elsewhere....:D

When exactly was III./KG 1 formed? Is December 1939 in doubt (I just added the date 15th to Larry's and Doug's book!)

Now if Plischke in fact was St Kap of 3./KG 51 who was St Kap of 8./KG 1 (if in existance) and for that matter 8./KG 51??

Cheers
Stig

Re: Hptm Gerhard Plischke, + 17 Nov 39
 

Maj Otto Neuenfeld wast St Kap of 3/KG 51 until his death 7 Nov 39 to be replaced by Hptm (Ernst?) Pflüger? The only mention of 8/KG 1 comes from the RK book for the bio of Henne which says Gerhard Plischke was the St Kap. Henne then went to 5 then Stab II and ultimately 9/KG 51. What would help are the EKMs for Plischke & Henne

Re: Hptm Gerhard Plischke, + 17 Nov 39
 

The names are Hptm Gerhard Plischke, EKM 8./KG 51, Nr. 1 and Hptm Rudolf Henne, EKM 8./KG 51, Nr. 4.

Matti

Re: Hptm Gerhard Plischke, + 17 Nov 39
 

Thanks Chris/Matti

Seems pretty settled that Plischke was with 8./KG 51 and that it is either a misprint or mistake in Kaiser's vol 1.

It also seems I can relax with regard to the formation of III./KG 1 and can keep Larry's update intact

Cheers
Stig

Re: Hptm Gerhard Plischke, + 17 Nov 39
 

Now all I need is confirmation who took over from him (Hptm von Schenk?) and when Hptm Gerd Korthals took over 8/KG 51 (said to be June 1940 but he was still flying with 2/KGr 100 in Jan 41)

Re: Hptm Gerhard Plischke, + 17 Nov 39
 

Hallelujah! This thread proves it ain’t over ‘til the fat lady sings. Magnificent trawling and digging, guys.

It looks like the EKMs may be the final determinant for name spellings and units. I knew these had survived the war, reportedly being captured at some sort of personnel records depot in the Eifel area near the end of the war and turned over to the CIC. But I have no idea where they are today or that private researchers had copies of them. I assume they are part of the haul that eventually ended up at WASt in Berlin.

L.

P.S. not to worry, Peter, my motorcycle thugs have packed their bags, chugged their last pint and returned to the U.S. Southwest on Virgin Atlantic. Unfortunately for them, they had to leave their Harleys behind in care of the British National Party. :grin: :wink:

Re: Hptm Gerhard Plischke, + 17 Nov 39
 

Hello,

This raises the question about the unit attribution of other a/c lost from KG51 on leaflet dropping missions that night.

I have (Peter's work):

"17 November 1939: 1./KG51 Heinkel He111H. Took-off for leaflet-dropping mission between Nantes and Brest but became disorientated and blown off course in severe storm conditions, crashed at Marzia, north-west of Merano, in northern Italy. (Beo) Oberlt Klaus Pfordte, (Bf) Uffz Karl Hosel, (Neither found in VDK) and (Bm) Uffz Heinz Reschke killed, pilot badly injured. Aircraft 100% write-off."

and:

"17 November 1939: 3./KG51 Heinkel He111H-2 (2759). Took-off for leaflet-dropping mission between Nantes and Brest but became disorientated and blown off course in severe storm conditions and crashed at Leongang-Steinberge, east of Saalfelden, Zell am See, Austria. FF Oberlt Helmut Domke, BO Fw Wilhelm Trautner, BM Uffz Erhard Tesch, and BF Uffz Wilhelm Altmann all believed unhurt. Aircraft 9K+LL 100% write-off. (Matti)
(Note: Revised per 1/21/15 PC email)."

Are the names and Staffel assignments of these still correct?

Also, are any photos known of the crashes of any of these three aircraft? As you all know by now, we're trying to match all the Phoney War/Sitzkrief losses/force landings with photos of each incident. An impossibly task, I know, but we've made a lot of progress with this beyond what has been published in Peter C.'s book on "The Battle of France Then and Now."

Re: Hptm Gerhard Plischke, + 17 Nov 39
 

No idea Larry H

But, since Larry de Z has sent his 'pals' packing, I am curious why the pilot (at this time) in WNr 2759 was higher in rank than the BO who, if I have understood anything right, was supposed to be in command of the aircraft?

Also why can't both I./KG 51 and III./KG 51 have been on missions at the same time?

Cheers
Stig

Re: Hptm Gerhard Plischke, + 17 Nov 39
 

Hi together,

the Name of the crasg is Untertilli[b]ach in Eastern-Tirol

Rüdiger