Luftwaffe loss night 2/3rd July 1944 in Normandy
 

Hello to all,

I'm seeking any info about a loss during the night of 2/3 July 1944, a Luftwaffe aircraft crashed at 00:15 in vicinity of le Neubourg (Evreux/Louviers area). Two crew member were killed and 3 managed to use their parachute, they are safe.

I think for a Ju-88 but I don't have any more info. Anyone have idea about the Unit, the crew or anything else ??

Warm thanks in advance.

Loic

Re: Luftwaffe loss night 2/3rd July 1944 in Normandy
 

Not KG 2 or KG 6 and doesn't look like KG 54 from an initial glance. II/LG 1 lost 2 aircraft in a mission against shipping in the Seine Bay

Re: Luftwaffe loss night 2/3rd July 1944 in Normandy
 

Ok thanks Chris

Re: Luftwaffe loss night 2/3rd July 1944 in Normandy
 

Not I./KG66.

Best regards,

Marcel

Re: Luftwaffe loss night 2/3rd July 1944 in Normandy
 

Thank you Marcel,
Well, the possibilities are reduced now.

Chris, do you have more info about these 2 LG1 losses ?

Regards
Loic

Re: Luftwaffe loss night 2/3rd July 1944 in Normandy
 

Ju 88 A-4, 0880144383 4/LG 1 Seine Bay Uffz Helmut Stiller, Uffz Gerhard Hemprich, Ogefr Heinz Schäfer, Ogefr Max Heinke

Ju 88 A-4, 300397, 6/LG 1 Seine Bay Ofw Alfred Soster, Uffz Franz Salletmayer, Fw Rupert Kauworski, Ogefr Helmut Knauf

All were casualties but to what degree, I cannot say. You also quote a crew of 5?

Re: Luftwaffe loss night 2/3rd July 1944 in Normandy
 

2/3-7-44
Kampfgeschwader 54. S.Radtke. Pg.214.
"Am 02./03.07. kehren vom Mineneinsatz die B3+VL (550422), Bes. Uffz. Hildebrand(3./54), und
die B3+DS, Bes, Uffz, Mann (8,/54), nicht zurueck. Die ,,VL" und die ,,DS" stuerzt ueber dem Landekopf ab."

That's all I have.

Jaap

Re: Luftwaffe loss night 2/3rd July 1944 in Normandy
 

The LG1 history shows them all as missing except Helmut Knauf who was captured after baling out over the sea and being picked uo by HMS Goathland.

Re: Luftwaffe loss night 2/3rd July 1944 in Normandy
 

Thanks all for your contribution,

The Seine Bay seems to be very far from the crash point.

Yes Chris, the french report said 2 crew member carbonized in the wreck and 3 survivors...

Maybe that the state of bodies reminded two different individuals, no ?

Regards
Loic

Re: Luftwaffe loss night 2/3rd July 1944 in Normandy
 

Just checked KG 54 and it says 3 July 44 for the loss of Uffz Gerhard Hildebrand (3/KG 54) & Hptm Wilhelm Heute (St Kap 8/KG 54) anti-shipping in Seine Bay. All crews missing. Again, it could be 2-3 or 3-4 July-KG 54 should have recorded the losses for 2 July as there was no guarantee if they were lost after midnight

Re: Luftwaffe loss night 2/3rd July 1944 in Normandy
 

Thank you Chris for the precision

Re: Luftwaffe loss night 2/3rd July 1944 in Normandy
 

The report on the night in TNA HW13/39 has a pencilled note in the margin: "PW: 20-25 a/c of II/L1 with possible contingent of I/L1 based on same a/d up 2300. 1 of 6/L 1, carrying two mines, shot down."

Otherwise it just says that call signs were heard from KG 2 and I./KG 6.

Re: Luftwaffe loss night 2/3rd July 1944 in Normandy
 

Crew of the Ju88 is 4, from where hv you got the Data ??

Rémi

Re: Luftwaffe loss night 2/3rd July 1944 in Normandy
 

Hello,
I'ts come from french report
Regards
Loic

Re: Luftwaffe loss night 2/3rd July 1944 in Normandy
 

Maybe this:
1944-07-03, Stab I/KG 6, Ju 188 A-2, 180445, 3E+CB, Bei Criquebeuf-la-Campagne, 22 km nordwestlich Evreux, Nachtjägerbeschuß. Bruch ? %.
Flugzeugführer Major Mader, Johann, +
Bordfunker Uffz Schaefer, Ulrich, +

Matti

Re: Luftwaffe loss night 2/3rd July 1944 in Normandy
 

I have Mader's loss as 3-4 July but Criquebeuf-la-Campagne is NE of le Neuborg so locations do match

Re: Luftwaffe loss night 2/3rd July 1944 in Normandy
 

That's the good one :)

Nice men .

Zorglub

Re: Luftwaffe loss night 2/3rd July 1944 in Normandy
 

Yeah great Matti and Chris !!!

that's the good one as Zorglub said :)

Re: Luftwaffe loss night 2/3rd July 1944 in Normandy
 

Matti

I usually check your details against my written secondhand sources, in this case Jan Horn's book about KG 6, just to see if I need to change/update something.

He lists this loss to II./KG 6 probably because he also lists Mader as Kommandeur of that unit. Incidentally he states in the loss list that it happened on the 2nd but in his commanders list Mader is the Boss until the 3rd, so in my mind pretty clear it happened that night....

I take it the NVM states Stab I./KG 6, is that correct? A bit odd if that was so.

B Rgds
Stig

Re: Luftwaffe loss night 2/3rd July 1944 in Normandy
 

I have no other source for this loss than NVM, which obviously gives Stab I/KG 6.Of course it is possible that as the "owner" of the aircraft 3E+CB they reported the loss, but the crew was from Stab II/KG 6. I have to check this, but it takes time.

Matti

Re: Luftwaffe loss night 2/3rd July 1944 in Normandy
 

Thanks Matti
Stig

Re: Luftwaffe loss night 2/3rd July 1944 in Normandy
 

188 Solved also the problem of the crew of five..

Rémi

Re: Luftwaffe loss night 2/3rd July 1944 in Normandy
 

Stig,

Recheck the case. The NVM was written by I/KG 6 and it shows the crew also from I/KG 6. I have no idea, why Jan Horn is saying II/KG 6 and where he has found that info.

Matti

Re: Luftwaffe loss night 2/3rd July 1944 in Normandy
 

Thanks again Matti

Johann 'Hans' Mader was Kommandeur of II./KG 6 at this point.
In the main text Jan Horn makes it clear he was flying an aircraft if I./KG 6 during the night he was lost. Hans seems to have been his nickname al through his career (see Ritterkreuzträger der Kampflieger)

Looking in Zeng/Stankey's Bomber Units book they put forth he was temporarily acting as Kommandeur of that unit as well which means that Mader in practice was in command of both I. and II./KG 6 at the same time.

I didn't realise this until now since neither authors seems to 100% realise this either in their books. My apologies Matti, I should have looked closer the first time, but my aviation interests and other commitments makes time rather precious....:o

So we have an aircraft lost from I./KG 6 and a commander from both I. and II./KG 6. Horn followed Mader's main posting (II./KG 6), hence his reporting of the loss the way he did.

Cheers
Stig

Re: Luftwaffe loss night 2/3rd July 1944 in Normandy
 

Stig, no reason to apologize. I always enjoy your comments and remarks and also quite often learn quite a lot of them. I don't have those Jan Horn's books and now I know a little bit more about KG 6. Thanks.

Matti

Re: Luftwaffe loss night 2/3rd July 1944 in Normandy
 

Thanks Matti

Appreciate your gentle touch :)

Cheers
Stig