Luftwaffe personnel and Nazi-party membership
 

Dear Gruppe,

Was there a law/rule that prohibited Luftwaffe (or more general military) personnel to become a member of the NSDAP (Nazi-party)?

Re: Luftwaffe personnel and Nazi-party membership
 

In the last issue of Luftwaffe im Focus, there is a photo of a Lw pilot wearing an NSDAP pin. The text says that this (i.e., membership in the Nazi Party) was rare among Luftwaffe airmen and was actually frown upon by the other members. This detail is seldom spelled out in the literature, where often the Luftwaffe personnel is being referred to as 'Nazi pilots'.

Re: Luftwaffe personnel and Nazi-party membership
 

Interesting subject and I might cause a stir, but...

In the old Reichs army it was forbidden to belong to any political organisation.

The Army was traditionally the realm of the Prussian king, the Kriegsmarine was the favorite of the Kaiser, so it was very much Imperial in its traditions, but the Luftwaffe was most modern branch and as such most associated with the new (modern) order of the Nazi party.

Of course the armed forces reflect society. The new mass Wehrmacht would have seen plenty of Nazis in all branches.

Re: Luftwaffe personnel and Nazi-party membership
 

For the Wehrmacht, such a law existed.
In § 26 of the Wehrgesetz it says:
"Politik in der Wehrmacht.(1) Die Soldaten dürfen sich politisch nicht betätigen. Die Zugehörigkeit zur NSDAP oder zu einem der ihr angeschlossenen Verbände ruht für die Dauer des aktiven Wehrdienstes."
So members of the Wehrmacht did not have to leave the Party, but membership then became inactive.
As the Luftwaffe was a part of the Wehrmacht, this rule should be effective here also in theory.
Walter Nowotny was member of the Party and I know of one Austrian author (Heimito von Doderer), who became member of the NSDAP as early as 1933 and entered the Luftwaffe in 1940 without leaving the Party.
Hope this helps,
best wishes
Robert

Re: Luftwaffe personnel and Nazi-party membership
 

My impression is that to succeed in Nazi Germany, being a member of the NDASP was almost mandatory, or at least much denazified people claimed that. But I can understand that claiming being a partisan of the regime really helped one's carreer.

It seems to me that a good part of the important people in industry, education, culture and so on were members of the Nazi party and I just wonder if much Luftwaffe generals did the same or not. After all Goering was a member of the party, and of the Luftwaffe.

Re: Luftwaffe personnel and Nazi-party membership
 

With Goering it was different, he was a politician first and soldier second.

For career soldiers, many of whom started their career before the Nazis came to power or only shortly thereafter, many of the old rules applied. OTOH the wartime mass army would have seen that distinction much reduced.

Conservatism in Germany could actually bring with itself an anti nazi stance, even if only privately or passively. Hitler was never able to win over the German army, which remained very much Prussian in tradition and outlook.

Again, the Luftwaffe is the modern branch and as such the outsider, or more apt the insider (not including the Waffen SS).

It may be correct to say that the Nazi revolution never succeeded in winning over the armed forces, at least not pre-war.

Re: Luftwaffe personnel and Nazi-party membership
 

If I remember correctly, Steinhoff described Heinz Wernicke as being NSDAp member in "The last chance".

Re: Luftwaffe personnel and Nazi-party membership
 

Horst Carganico is described as being a 'hard-core Nazi' in Volume 1 of Black Cross, Red Star, so one wonders if he was also in the NSDAP?

Re: Luftwaffe personnel and Nazi-party membership
 

My two cents.

I had only one chance to interview a German pilot. It was Grislawski, half year befor he die.

Regarding Nazi pilots he told me the following: Generally they were not aware for sure - who is nsdap member or not. But as he told, only former Hitlerjugend and party members were being awarded by DK, so they always suspected DK-winners as Nazi.


And if I remember right Hans Hahn was also Nazi.

Re: Luftwaffe personnel and Nazi-party membership
 

Hi,
Wasn't Moelder's a Party member too? Didn't he "unsubscribe" his membership at some point because of an objection to Nazi politics regarding religion? Perhaps someone could clarify this!
Karl

Re: Luftwaffe personnel and Nazi-party membership
 

Rudel was another staunch Nazi - though we could fill entire noticeboards listing them one at a time!

Moelders apparently was a staunch Catholic. Conspiracy theories about his death centre around a letter of protest said to have been written by him, after certain Nazi policies were introduced that discriminated against Catholics, or certain Catholics, or some things that Catholics held to be important.

If true, then given that Nazi-ism was based on pagan pre-Christian ideologies, it seems strange that he took so long to cotton on. But it seems that persecution of Jews, Slavs, Communists, socialists, gypsies and homosexuals were ok, just not Catholics. I suppose there is a last straw for everyone, and we all turn blind eyes to aspects of our own societies that we would not personally favour.

It has been said, in several sources, that the Luftwaffe was the most nazified of the German armed services, presumably excluding the SS. However, there are equally as many tales of more traditional a-political attitudes, and distaste for the politically-driven (and those who chose the political route largely to further their career).

Nazi society was devoted to the elite: favours given to those who rose to the top and displayed signs of superior capabilities. The heads of major industries would naturally fall into this category, and anyone standing out would be suspect and a target for the Party. The fate of the Junkers company was perhaps an early lesson to the others.

Re: Luftwaffe personnel and Nazi-party membership
 

Hello!

No, Moelders was never a member of the Party, not even Hans-Ulrich Rudel ever entered the NSDAP, although his ideals during and after the war were very much stuck in the Nazi mold!

Roger is correct, from 21.05.1935 on, an active member of the Wehrmacht was not allowed to be a member of the NSDAP ( this didn’t apply to a soldier in the reserve). This ended though on the 24.09.45., when it was cancelled. From that date on, no problem with a membership.

Friendly greetings

Hans Krensler

Re: Luftwaffe personnel and Nazi-party membership
 

Hans, I guess you did a typo with the date 24.9.45. I doubt much people joined the Nazi party at this date....

The Luftwaffe being the most recent branch of the military (not counting SS) probably had the most of Nazi party members joining it.

I think part of the anti-nazi attitude, or rather no-nazi attitude (anti-nazi implies for me to fight the Nazi regime, and very few airmen did this as far as I know), is probably rather a form of the usual behaviour of pilots that tend to ignore rules, or at least give this impression, in all countries, than a real political position.

In all probability the Luftwaffe was at least as much nazified as the German society of the time.

Re: Luftwaffe personnel and Nazi-party membership
 

I seem to remember this (approximate) quote in a recent book. Hitler once said:

"I have an imperial army, a catholic navy and a nazi air force."

Of course he was referring the the Luftwaffe being established during his regime, not necessarily it's political tendencies.

Re: Luftwaffe personnel and Nazi-party membership
 

oops!
Yes, 24.09.1944, that's the date!
Hans

Re: Luftwaffe personnel and Nazi-party membership
 

It seems the whole story was an invention of British intelligence and did not happen actually. I think at this point any discussions on this particular subject may stop, apart of short note, that Third Reich's regime was not very religious, either Protestant or Catholic, and was supported by Germans of all religions and atheists.

Re: Luftwaffe personnel and Nazi-party membership
 

Rudel was a member of the Allgemeine-SS, joining in 1936. His rank as of 19. October 1943 was SS-Sturmmann. I don't know if he held NSDAP membership, but it's not out of the question- he could have joined prior to joining the Luftwaffe. If one held Party membership BEFORE entering any branch of the Wehrmacht, he retained that membership. However, prior to the aftermath of the 20. July 1944 plot against Hitler, serving members of the armed forces were prohibited from joining any political party (although there were a few exceptions- GFM von Blomberg, Grossadmiral Raeder, and others somehow managed to join the Party after Hitler came to power in 1933; Erhard Milch was another member, but he joined in 1931 at which time he was not a member of the armed forces but was a leading Lufthansa figure). After the bomb plot, Wehrmacht members were permitted to join the NSDAP.

Here are a few notes on Rudel:

Hans-Ulrich Rudel
Oberst (Luftwaffe) /
SS-Sturmmann


* 02.07.1916 in Konradswaldau / Kreis Landshut.
+ 18.12.1982 in Rosenheim / Oberbayern.

NSDAP-Nr.:
SS-Nr.: 206 913 (Joined 00.00.1936)

Promotions:
01.01.1939 Leutnant
01.09.1940 Oberleutnant
01.04.1943 Hauptmann (mit RDA vom 01.04.1942)
[19.10.1943] SS-Sturmmann
01.03.1944 Major (mit RDA vom 01.10.1942)
01.09.1944 Oberstleutnant
01.01.1945 Oberst

Decorations & Awards:
29.12.1944 Goldenes Eichenlaub zum Ritterkreuz des Eisernen Kreuzes (Only recipient) Schlachtgeschwader 2 “Immelmann”
29.03.1944 Brillanten zum Ritterkreuz des Eisernen Kreuzes (10.) as Major and Kdr. III.Gruppe / Stukageschwader 2 “Immelmann”, Eastern Front
25.11.1943 Schwertern zum Ritterkreuz des Eisernen Kreuzes (42.) as Hauptmann and Kdr. III.Gruppe / Stukageschwader 2 “Immelmann”, Eastern Front
14.04.1943 Eichenlaub zum Ritterkreuz des Eisernen Kreuzes (229.) as Oberleutnant and Staffelkapitän 1.Staffel / Stukageschwader 2 “Immelmann”, Eastern Front
06.01.1942 Ritterkreuz des Eisernen Kreuzes as Oberleutnant and Staffelkapitän of 9.Staffel / Stukageschwader 2 “Immelmann”, Eastern Front
08.12.1941 Deutsches Kreuz in Gold as Oberleutnant and Staffelkapitän of 9.Staffel / Stukageschwader 2 “Immelmann”, Eastern Front
18.07.1941 1939 Eisernes Kreuz I. Klasse
10.11.1939 1939 Eisernes Kreuz II. Klasse
00.05.1944 Gemeinsames Flugzeugführer und Beobachterabzeichen in Gold mit Brillanten
00.06.1944 Frontflug-Spange für Schlachtflieger in Gold & Platinum mit Anhänger (“2000” in diamonds)
20.10.1941 Ehrenpokal für Besondere Leistung im Luftkrieg
00.00.194_ Frontflug-Spange für Kampfflieger in Gold mit Anhänger
18.07.1941 Frontflug-Spange für Kampfflieger in Gold
00.00.194_ Frontflug-Spange für Kampfflieger in Silber
00.00.194_ Frontflug-Spange für Kampfflieger in Bronze
00.00.19 Flugzeugführerabzeichen
00.00.194_ Verwundetenabzeichen, 1939 in Gold
00.00.194_ Verwundetenabzeichen, 1939 in Silber
27.03.1944; 28.03.1944; Mentioned in the Wehrmachtbericht
03.06.1944; 06.08.1944;
and 10.02.1945
00.00.1942 Medaille “Winterschlacht im Osten 1941/42”
ca. 1939 Medaille zur Erinnerung an den 1. Oktober 1938
00.00.194_ Goldenes Hitler-Jugend Ehrenzeichen
16.01.1945 Officer’s Large Gold Bravery Medal (Hungary)

Wartime Accomplishments:
Flew 2,530 sorties (all but approximately 400 in the Ju-87; the remainder in a Focke-Wulf Fw-190), destroying the following Soviet military assets:

9 aircraft (7 fighters and 2 Ilyushin Il-2 ground attack planes; scored while flying the FW-190)
519 tanks
150 artillery pieces
1000 vehicles
70 landing craft
4 warships (including the battleship “Marat”, two cruisers, and a destroyer)
Numerous bunkers, bridges, and supply lines




Best wishes,
~ Mike Miller

Re: Luftwaffe personnel and Nazi-party membership
 

The answer to your comment, Franek, is Dieter Bonhoeffer , who was leader (or spokesman for) a sizeable branch of the German Protestant church that stood out against the Nazis. He died in a concentration camp.

Re: Luftwaffe personnel and Nazi-party membership
 

Graham, I am not sure what your point is.

Re: Luftwaffe personnel and Nazi-party membership
 

The point is that not all germans was nazis, as you more or less claims


Best :-)
Olve Dybvig

Re: Luftwaffe personnel and Nazi-party membership
 

Membership in the Party didn't automatically mean the member was a "Nazi", or even remotely politically active. Many officers joined the Party to further their professional careers, nothing more. My uncle was an officer in the Luftwaffe, and joined the Party in order to further his career as a judge. Of course he was a Major d.R., which perhaps made it possible to have membership while on active duty.

Re: Luftwaffe personnel and Nazi-party membership
 

Where? Poor argument on your side nonetheless, one against millions. I would preffer Graham replying to my post though.

Re: Luftwaffe personnel and Nazi-party membership
 

Franek

You have a fascinating tendency to shoot your self in the foot.
First you ask where you have said that all germans was nazis, then you point out that only one non nazi against millions, So again you more or less claims that all germans was nazis

But you will probably not see the difference in "all are" and the more subtil that you "more or less claims that all was".



Olve Dybvig

Re: Luftwaffe personnel and Nazi-party membership
 

I wrote that Germans of all religions supported the NS regime, enough of them to win the free elections and enough to allow them to keep power to 1945 without any serious opposition. Everything else is your assumption.

Re: Luftwaffe personnel and Nazi-party membership
 

Dear VtwinVince,
Actually being a member of the "party" did mean you were a "Nazi" which is the idiomatic term for a member of the NSDAP. And to join it for personal gain was what many people did and in doing so, ipso facto, supported its actions and power base. If I don't agree with the goals and actions of a political party, religion, industrial company, etc.and I join it for influence or financial gain, then I believe to have compromised my integrity.

On another note, IIRC, the German Catholic political party was one of the strongest Anti-NSDAP paties in Germany. It was disbanded, I believe, by an agreement between Germany and the Vatican.

Best regards,

Artie Bob

Re: Luftwaffe personnel and Nazi-party membership
 

I hadn't replied because I haven't been back to this thread until now. The point I was trying to make, perhaps not very well, was not that one individual was against Nazi policies, but that the organisation he led was. Bonhoeffer's church was not the only movement in Germany to oppose Hitler, and whilst it is true that in each case it would only take one single exception for your claim to be strictly correct, I feel you simply do not have the evidence to justify it. Most, yes. The majority, quite likely. All - no.

In response to your latest claim: when opposition leaders and their members were thrown into prison and murdered, it is hardly surprising that internal opposition was muted and incapable of overthrowing the Nazis. The same was true in Communist Russia, Saddam's Iraq, and many other nations ruled by military or civilian despots. It does not mean mass popularity for these regimes - though indeed they may at times have had such.

Re: Luftwaffe personnel and Nazi-party membership
 

There were plenty of Communists and Socialists in Germany, lets assume that a healthy proportion of them did not believe in the Nazi ideals...

The younger generations, those who developed a sense of politics after 1933, might be better suited for generalisation.

Re: Luftwaffe personnel and Nazi-party membership
 

As long as all opposition was either shoot or was send to concentration camps you dont get any serious opposition. You of all people Franek, since you are polish, should know better than writing such a stupid frase: "enough to allow them to keep power to 1945 without any serious opposition"

Olve

Re: Luftwaffe personnel and Nazi-party membership
 

...Germans of all religions supported the NS regime, enough of them to win the free elections and enough to allow them to keep power to 1945 without any serious opposition...

Very good Franek. What is your point?

Well, Poles of all religions supported the communistic regime, enough of them to win the "free elections" again and again (with almost 100% of all voices) and enough to allow them to keep power between 1945 - 1989 without any serious opposition. Were they all communists?

Best wishes,
Marius

Re: Luftwaffe personnel and Nazi-party membership
 

Oh well, anybody may quote my text, where I stated that all Germans were NS supporters?
I am waiting.
I stand by what I wrote, Germans of all relligions supported NS regime, including Jewes initially. The support was common and there was practically no movement against, apart of communists but it is no reason for pride. No mass emmigration, no mass protests, nothing aimed at NS regime, elected in free elections and not brought on bayonets.
I cannot say much about Iraq, but look at Russia, plenty of Russians, those who managed to, emmigrated. Look at those famous names in aviation: Galitzine, Kartvelli, Rozanoff, Seversky, Sikorski and many, many more. There were thousands of them who escaped, often they changed their names, so you do not recognise a Russian in eg. Richard Marner, ex-RAF, who played a character of a certain Colonel in a certain TV series.
Comparison to Poland is even more a nonsense. Large partisan units were finally defeated in the late 1940s but minor ones continued combat up until 1957. The last Polish partisan was killed in combat in 1963! There were mass protests in 1956, 1970, 1976 and 1980. Marius, when have you left Kattowitz (as you presumably preffer to call Katowice) that you managed to forget it?
Do we have anything like that in NSGermany? No. If there were some opposing groups, they quickly dissapeared because they had no support in the society. It was perfectly OK when Germany bombed Warsaw, Rotterdam, Coventry, Belgrade. It was perfectly OK when Gypsies, Jewes, Poles were mass murdered (they knew it and there are documents supporting it). It became not OK when Germany started to lose the war, then Stauffenberg appeared (it is worthy to have a closer look at their political goals). But it was too late, at the time Germany lost the war, that was started by the Germany.
Then, post-war, every German was against the Hitler, and now the one may have impression the Germans were actual victims of the war. Ridiculous.

Re: Luftwaffe personnel and Nazi-party membership
 

>I cannot say much about Iraq, but look at Russia, plenty of Russians, those who managed to, emmigrated.

And there were plenty, who not. I respect those great emmigrants and white army members in general, but I think one should have more boldness not to leave your country and fatherland, whatever regime is ruling.


>Comparison to Poland is even more a nonsense. Large partisan units were finally defeated in the late 1940s but minor ones continued combat up until 1957. The last Polish partisan was killed in combat in 1963! There were mass protests in 1956, 1970, 1976 and 1980. Marius, when have you left Kattowitz (as you presumably preffer to call Katowice) that you managed to forget it?
Do we have anything like that in NSGermany? No.

May be that's because Polish communists didn't eliminated Polish people by millions?


>Then, post-war, every German was against the Hitler, and now the one may have impression the Germans were actual victims of the war.

Here I would join your point of view, but I don't think that other discussion members really disputing with you in this matter.

Re: Luftwaffe personnel and Nazi-party membership
 

To Franek

Nobody has ever said that you stated that all Germans were NS supporters
It was said that you more or less indicate it. BIG DIFFERENCE.
That you dont understand the difference is really no big surprise.
And its clear that political history is not your strongest topic. Its best that you stick to the one thing you know; Polish WWII aviation history

Olve

Re: Luftwaffe personnel and Nazi-party membership
 

Well Franek isn't isolated when he forget about the strong opposition on the Left before and while the Nazis came to power. To assume that all those German communists etc simply changed their views is rather simplistic.

Paradoxically it was a strong Communist political force that drove many in the center towards the Nazis, towards the extreme right.

Re: Luftwaffe personnel and Nazi-party membership
 

Andrey
Well, not everybody could. A future wife of my grand-grand uncle managed to in the late 1920s and I am not awared she ever wanted to return to Russia, at least under Soviet rule. Certainly, decision to emmigrate was a drastic one, especially having in mind that majority kept Russian tradition. Nonetheless judging by approach to Polish veterans, I have no doubt that their decision was fully justified. Dead men have no voice.
They would have to extreminate the whole nation. The situation here was very tense and dense.
This is not the point however, the point is that we have nothing like that in the Germany, where there was no such terror like under Soviet rule.
I agree but this is linked, I mean the German post-war propaganda and the current view of the situation in NS Germany. You see, there was no problem to overpaint swastikas in protest against removing old unit's badge but that was all, they have protested against.
The general situation was just accepted.

Olve
Thank you.
It was said by you. Re-read what I have written.
Well, pointing out who were bad guys is lack of knowledge of political history? I am afraid that you have never seen any intel reports about internal situation in wartime Germany. I did.

Ruy
You are entirely correct but one point. I wrote that Germans of all relligions supported the regime in some way and not that they were all supporting it.
Still, with the communists the situation is much more complicated. In mid-late 1930s plenty of communists from eg. Poland or Germany were called to Moscow and then either executed or jailed. During the early stages of WWII, up until Barbarossa, communists actually supported the Germans, either sabotaging industrial effort in France and UK or cooperating in combat with national opposition/underground in occupied countries.
Only after German attack communists turned against Germany but still it was not a very significant group, although perhaps most significant of all of them. What is important, they were not a national opposition, and in general, communists were working against their respective countries. Thus, we still do not have any substantial national German opposition. They either supported regime or kept silent with the same effect.

Re: Luftwaffe personnel and Nazi-party membership
 

To Franek:

They either supported regime or kept silent with the same effect.

Nothing unusual. And it is not a typical German behaviour, but human one. This happens everywhere on this Earth and everytime, even now in this particular moment. Also in Poland.
By the way, Hitler had to be killed over 40 or 50 times. This is much more than happened against other dictators or regimes. It is not fair writing about lack of opposition in Germany.

Regards,
Marius

Re: Luftwaffe personnel and Nazi-party membership
 

I'd like to point out thet the Nazis never really won a free election. They only won relative majorities, the highest being 43.9% on 5-March-1933 when they were already on power (a pretty low figure by Lukashenko's standards, isn't it?) - but then they made sure there were no more elections ...

Re: Luftwaffe personnel and Nazi-party membership
 

Hi Guys,

My understanding has been that forces created by the Nazis themselves tended to have younger age profiles and correspondingly higher Party membership. This includes the Luftwaffe. Given that many (perhaps most?) new pilots came to the Luftwaffe via the NSFK, this need not be surprising. Both Luftwaffe and Italian paratroops reportedly had unusually high representations from the Nazi and Fascist youth movements. This seems to have been a general phenomenon. Armed services inherited from previous regimes seem to have been less penetrated by party members.

Cheers,

Sid.