USAAF losses over Ploesti 24 June 1944
 

Can anyone give me more information on the USAAF losses on this date.

325 FG P-51Cs 42-103552, 42-103599

450 BG - B-24 41-29227, “Illegal Eagle” 42-78216, 42-78380, “Wolf Pack” 42-64454, ” Shoo Shoo Baby” 42-50304, 42-94984

376BG - B-24s 42-78190, 42-78373, 42-78111, 42-52547.

449 BG - B-24 “Gidi Gidi Boom Boom” 41-28846

98 BG B-24s 42-73136, 42-100259

I know they were attacked by LW, Rumanian and perhaps Bulgarian pilots. JG52 claimed some victories but am unsure how many. Ten years ago this forum discussed the raid and Rumananian pilots of the 9th FG were credited with3 B-24. From JG52 Erich Hartmann and Hans Birkner claimed P-51s and Helmut Lipfert and his wingman claimed 2 B-24 but I believe the total LW claims were eleven. I believe Heinz Ewald also brought down a bomber.

The Bulgarian air force shot down the 449th BG B-24 when it strayed into their air space.

regards

Keith

Re: USAAF losses over Ploesti 24 June 1944
 

325th FG
http://raf-112-squadron.org/325thfghonor_roll.html
24 Jun 44
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showpo...71&postcount=3
42-103552 (Welch) was lost to light Flak on a S.A.R. mission.

Other claimants :
I./JG 53
http://cieldegloire.fr/jg_053f.php#victoires1944
6./JG 301
http://cieldegloire.fr/jg_301.php
III./JG 77
http://www.cieldegloire.fr/jg_077e.php#victoires1944
II./SG 2
http://cieldegloire.fr/sg_002.php

La Chasse De Jour Allemande en Roumanie, Jean-Louis Roba Et Erik Mombeek, p70
98th BG : 2 lost to fighters
376th BG : 1 lost to fighters, 1 lost to Flak, 2 unknown
449th BG : 1 unknown
450th BG : 4 lost to fighters, 1 unknown

Re: USAAF losses over Ploesti 24 June 1944
 

Keith

I will verify your question, however at first sight I am not aware of any Illegal Eagle
of 450 BG as loss but as a night landing accident in Italy with no other events and an
other S/N than this u've mentioned which was 41-78216 . Then 325th FG 42-103 559
( need pilot's name ) can't find the S/N , however there's a 42-103 599 and I guess
there must be a typing error at your end. As into Welch he was not shot down over
Romania, I don't have his macr and I presume he was escorting the bombers bound
to Romania when shot down over Italy.

Re: USAAF losses over Ploesti 24 June 1944
 

Hello,
42-78216 - MACR 6364 not available on "Fold 3".
but
is listed on aviationarchaeology.com - so-
MACR - Country - Date - Aircraft Type - AAF S/N - Group - Sqdn - Pilot
6364 - RUM - 440624 - B-24G - 42-78216 - 450BG -723BS - JOHNSON, HERBERT P Jr.

Crew lost were -
2Lt. JOHNSON Jr, Herbert P - O-818159.
2Lt. BARNES, Daniel Gunningham - O-823788.
2Lt. LINDSEY, John W. - O-709935.
2Lt. LOTOW, Jason H - O1286313.
S/Sgt. SHOUP, Howard W - 35787698.
Sgt. BALEK, Louis - 33831705.
Sgt. BRAGA, Davis A - 39041771.
POW
Sgt. CASSIDY, William L - 17071948.

Possibly two other crew as yet I haven't found names. The other five(41-29227; 42-78380; 42-64454; 42-50304; 42-94984) aircraft from this Bomb Group that were lost on the 24th all had ten crewmen.

All for now

PS
Re: " Illegal Eagle" yes was with the 450th BG, BUT serial number was 42-28756, for three photo's see B24 Best Web via the armyairforces.com website.
But this aircraft was lost on 24th May 1944 MACR 5440, an earlier MACR 3930 for 5th April 44 was due to one MIA crewman.

So it is quite possible that the name was used again on another aircraft in the Group, possibly 42-78216 but where is confirmation of this being so ?

The 450th Bomb Group Website has: 722nd Squadron - 42-78216 named "Janner II".
B24 Best Web has photo of her here:
http://www.b24bestweb.com/jannerii.htm

Alex

Re: USAAF losses over Ploesti 24 June 1944
 

Regarding 42-78216 the night landing incident report is listed at 450 BG , there is no MACR because the aircraft and crew was not lost , hope that helps .

Re: USAAF losses over Ploesti 24 June 1944
 

Hello,

That figures as lives lost but in allied area, so no MACR.

But as Listed in my earlier post seven lives were lost and at least one crewman became a POW so MACR 6364 was issued, so therefore it must exist ?

I think that the night accident report you mention is that for "Illegal Eagle" serial number 42-78285 on August 2nd 1944.

Alex

Re: USAAF losses over Ploesti 24 June 1944
 

Indeed and thanks for your update . Checked through my books and records of 15th AF, the Janner II 42-78216 was shot down on that day over Ploesti ,Pvt CASSIDY, William L ( not Sgt ) was the single survivor who bailed out and became POW .Obviously no MACR , no crew photos ,just a grave stone and some scanty details here and there. Strange feeling to determine these heros died unnoticed, not even their BG group have records on them .

Re: USAAF losses over Ploesti 24 June 1944
 

Hello,
Here is the info I used for POW Cassidy.

http://aad.archives.gov/aad/record-d...pg=1&rid=51766

Looks like Sergeant to me.

From something at the back of my memory says that all flying crew of lower rank were automatically raised to Sergeant, but I could be wrong, perhaps it was a promotion whilst a POW.

As for the crew were there 10 crewmembers or just eight as it would seem ?
If ten then two more names are wanted.

Alex

Re: USAAF losses over Ploesti 24 June 1944
 

Yes you may be right on your presumtions , normally the Lib would be manned
by 10 or more , however in various cases even by 14 if Mickey type Lib and in
other cases crew would lack a Nav or Bombardier or more crew members and
be flown by 8 or 7 crew members. 450 BG states he was Pvt but may have been
promoted after death . Considering the lone survivor the acft may have caught fire
and exploded .

Strange I could not locate any crew photos or material, I therefore presume must
have been a new crew who just arrived to Manduria not really known
to the other crews and the Group

Re: USAAF losses over Ploesti 24 June 1944
 

http://www.450thbg.com/real/index.shtml
Archives
S2 Reports
http://www.450thbg.com/real/s2/1944/june/24june.shtml

Re: USAAF losses over Ploesti 24 June 1944
 

Thank you UDF 00,

I had already looked on the 450 BG site.
The serial numbers of the six a/c are in earlier post.
I checked the Fold3 MACR's and Nara's POW's. The ABMC lists may not show all if some have been returned to the US.

Crew of 42-78216 so far only eight names.
The other five 450BG a/c lost all had crews of 10.
Came up with 23 POW's including Cassidy.
So wanted is at least two more names to complete the crew for 42-78216, or did she only carry a crew of eight ?

Thanks
Alex

Re: USAAF losses over Ploesti 24 June 1944
 

Most of the the mission reports and other events at 450 BG website and other 15th AF BG's sites are outdated something which corrected numerous times by historians throughout the years. 450 BG lost 6 aircrafts on that day , in total the 15 Air Force lost 14 bombers and 3 fighters . In addition numerous observations carry wrongly spelled locations while if 450 BG claims that 39 Libs took off from Manduria how could then only 26 of them be over the target ( info updated recently, this after accounting early returns and other) . In summary the 15th AF came up with a max effort of 235 plus Libs in addition to 55 B-17's from 5th BW over target.

PS : For those interested on these figures, best thing is to buy current publications rather use as reference outdated websites

Re: USAAF losses over Ploesti 24 June 1944
 

Hello,
And the serial number of the seventh B24 was ? please.

Thanks
Alex

Re: USAAF losses over Ploesti 24 June 1944
 

The 450th BG mission report was an answer to the initial post ( 98th & 449th lagging behind 376th & 450th which bore the brunt of the attack, use of rockets, sightings of
Fw 190s, Bf 110s, Ju 88s and yellow [what else!] nosed Bf 109).
For 42-78216 :
http://www.450thbg.com/real/crews/johnsonh.shtml

Re: USAAF losses over Ploesti 24 June 1944
 

Alex,
The two missing names are:

S/Sgt John D Hull, 33719186, status: POW

Sgt Abraham Barn, serial unknown, status: unknown

From 450th BG mission records at Maxwell AFB.

I have not been able to locate a MACR for this crew. The MACR folder just has a note, Not found at time of filming. Abraham Barn does not appear in the list of POWs obtained from NARA, nor does he appear on the ABMC website. Nor does he appear in the National Cemetery Administration Gravesite Locator. Nor NARA's Enlistment database, nor Ancestry's Death Index. Very strange. This may indicate that his name is misspelled, or he deliberately changed it.

Enjoy!

Frank.

Re: USAAF losses over Ploesti 24 June 1944
 

Hello researcher111,

You say -

"Most of the the mission reports and other events at 450 BG website and other 15th AF BG's sites are outdated something which corrected numerous times by historians throughout the years. 450 BG lost 6 aircrafts on that day , while if 450 BG claims that 39 Libs took off from Manduria how could then only 26 of them be over the target ( info updated recently, this after accounting early returns and other)."

If you look again at the numbers.
39 a/c are said to have taken off, OK
3 a/c returned early, OK
29 a/c returned to Base plus 1 returned to Base later, so 30 a/c returned OK
So
39 - 3 = 36 -(29 + 1) = 6

Alex

Re: USAAF losses over Ploesti 24 June 1944
 

Hello Frank,
Thank you greatly for your input, it is most welcome.
As for the MACR I think that craig Fuller must have had access to it as he gives the Pilot name in his website - how else would he have got the pilots name ?

DCO.
Thanks again, will see if I can find Bohn's service number, if I do I will let you know.

Now red face :)
The answer was here all the time and I missed it :(
http://www.450thbg.com/real/crews/johnsonh.shtml

Crew of B-24 42-78216 was -

P - 2Lt. JOHNSON Jr, Herbert P - O-818159 - KIA.
CP - 2Lt. BARNES, Daniel Gunningham - O-823788 - KIA.
N - 2Lt. LINDSEY, John W. - O-709935 - KIA.
B - 2Lt. LOTOW, Jason H - O1286313 - KIA.
TT - Sgt. BALEK, Louis - 33831705 - KIA.
E - S/Sgt. SHOUP, Howard W - 35787698 - KIA.
BT - Sgt. CASSIDY, William L - 17071948 - POW.
RO/WG - S/Sgt. HULL, John D - 33719186 - POW.
WG - Sgt. BOHN, Abraham - 31371559 - POW.
TG - Sgt. BRAGA, Davis A - 39041771 - KIA.

Taking into account the list in the Official 450 BG website the above is my interpretation of Crew positions given in order as usualy shown in reports.

Alex

Re: USAAF losses over Ploesti 24 June 1944
 

BOHN, ABRAHAM 31371559.

Re: USAAF losses over Ploesti 24 June 1944
 

Hello,

Thank you ALL, for the interest and input that has paid off for one B24 crew.
"Keith A" had asked at the start for help with losses on the 24th June 44.
I think that his request has mostly if not fully been answered.
Well done.

Alex

Re: USAAF losses over Ploesti 24 June 1944
 

Astonished as always by the depth of knowledge provided by the forum, my initial interest was to identify how accurate the LW/Rumanian claims were. It seems they were largely accurate.

best regards

Keith

Re: USAAF losses over Ploesti 24 June 1944
 

Check attachment