Anton Benning & Walter Loos
 

Hello,

have Anton Benning or Walter Loos scored more Jagdgeschwader 301 kills than Kurt Welter ?

Michael

Re: Anton Benning & Walter Loos
 

No, but the claims of Kurt Welter are partly very controversial. The WWW is very helpful in answering this question.

Rgds,
Kaczmarek

Re: Anton Benning & Walter Loos
 

...I was wondering if in spite of the controversy about his score, Welter might be the top JG 301 ace...

Michael

Re: Anton Benning & Walter Loos
 

Good evening Gentlemen,

how many of Walter Loos' 38 kills were scored in JG300 ?

Kind regards,

Michael

Re: Anton Benning & Walter Loos
 

Hi

In my database,I have this (Stab/JG300)

07/07/44=B-24 HSS
07/07/44=B-24....Officially approved on 04/11/44
09/08/44=P-51 w.B.
15/08/44=B-17....Officially approved on 27/12/44
23/08/44=P-51....Officially approved on 27/12/44
28/08/44=P-51
29/08/44=B-17....Officially approved on 12/11/44

Michel

Re: Anton Benning & Walter Loos
 

Good afternoon Michel,

thanks for your answer.
Your seven JG300 kills match with the list of Johannes Mathews.
Before his JG300 tour Loos scored thirteen kills with JG3.
After JG300 Loos scored four kills with JG301.
In which unit was the balance of his 38 kills scored ?
In JgrOst ? Hitherto unknown kills in JG300 or JG 301 ?

Kind regards,

Michael

Re: Anton Benning & Walter Loos
 

The first Appendix of Willi Reschke's volume lists three (3) victories for Loos while serving with Stabsschwarm/JG 301:

2 victories on 24 April 45, Jak-9's over Berlin
1 victory on 30 April 45, Jak-9 over Berlin (The very last mission for the unit.)

Reschke describes the 24 April action in detail on Pg. 257-259. On that day, Loos was in a three flight consisting of Loos, Keil and Blum, all flying a Ta 152.

Bronc

Re: Anton Benning & Walter Loos
 

Good afternoon Bronc,

I read Willi Reschke's really thrilling book and even could talk to him about it before he passed away.
It's highly recommendable to all:
https://www.amazon.de/Chronik-Jagdge...=willi+reschke
I wonder if the kill list that it includes is complete because that website has one JG301 kill more for Loos:
http://www.luftwaffe.cz/loosw.html

I wish you a pleasant Monday,

Michael

Re: Anton Benning & Walter Loos
 

the 25.4.1945 claim of Loos is from his Flugbuch... see attachment.

Re: Anton Benning & Walter Loos
 

Good morning Mr Kassak,

oh cool that a Flugbuch exists. Thanks for the post.
Does the Flugbuch reveal more than seven JG300 kills or more than four JG301 kills ?

Kind regards,

Michael

Re: Anton Benning & Walter Loos
 

As for JG 301 its pretty all. and I do not think it has more info as Lorrant´s definitive JG 300 history book.

Re: Anton Benning & Walter Loos
 

Good afternoon,

does the Flugbuch mention his final score ?

Best greetings,

Michael

Re: Anton Benning & Walter Loos
 

nope :(

Re: Anton Benning & Walter Loos
 

Would you suppose that the missing 14 kills were scored with Jgr. Ost ?

Re: Anton Benning & Walter Loos
 

Hi

JGr.Ost was a final training unit, sometimes they were thrown against and enemy, the claims are few, claimants would be the combat experienced trainers, sometimes the trainees, but never more than a few even credited to a single pilot, so the answer to your "missing" question is no.


Kind Regards


Johannes

Re: Anton Benning & Walter Loos
 

Good afternoon Johannes,

there are several books indicating 38 kills for Walter Loos:

• Musciano (1982)
• Forsyth (2009, 2011)
• Schumann (2013)
• Weal (2013)

Are they wrongly all copying from Toliver/Constable (1968) ?

Have a nice Sunday,

Michael

Re: Anton Benning & Walter Loos
 

No

Obermeier “Ritterkreuztrager” (1966)

“Insgesamt 38 Luftsiege, davon 22 Viermots, 7 Russen, bei nur 66 Feindflügen, 8 weitere Abschüsse unbestätigt.”

I would suggest the author had access to the pilots collection of documents etc., which were for sale not too long ago for as little as USD 29500

http://www.virtualgrenadier.com/sale_item.php?iid=1788

– as you can see, same total mentioned and included in the documents is “a typewritten Abschussliste of victories over viermots and fighters”

Maybe you can afford to buy this and the let the rest of us peasants know what’s on the list?

Regards,

Craig…

Re: Anton Benning & Walter Loos
 

Good morning,

what makes you think that I know the buyer of these items or that I ever saw such a sum of money ?
Can you discern what entry is written for the second flight on 23Aug on page 9/15 ?

Michael

Re: Anton Benning & Walter Loos
 

Sorry

Nothing personal

Just my weird sense of humour over the prices for something that will probably end up in a private collection hidden from the rest of the world for another 20 years.

Anyway, I cannot quite make it out - it's not an Abschuss - but looks to end in "schuss" and the last word is Prag. Maybe a ground victory at Prague ? Someone with a better idea of the handwriting may have the answer.


Regards

Craig...

Re: Anton Benning & Walter Loos
 

Good evening Craig,

could it mean "Herausschuss" ?

Cheers,

Michael

Re: Anton Benning & Walter Loos
 

Morning Guys

I have details of twenty-four of his claims, nine of which were unconfirmed, one of those unconfirmed being on the flugbuch page advertised for the sale. He returned from training in December 1944, just when the mikrofilms end, there is then the possibility, more likely probability that he claimed between December 1944 and April 1945. I would say in my opinion, and I don't have his flugbuch so it's not very well founded, that his thirty-eight might be points based, but there would be too many points i.e more than thirty-eight, so the more logical conclusion is that the thirty-eight includes many unconfirmed, and that I merely have details of twenty-four of the claims, and the missing fourteen were claimed between December 1944 and April 1945 on both fronts.


Kind Regards


Johannes

Re: Anton Benning & Walter Loos
 

Good evening Johannes,

you mean Loos might have 18 JG301 claims ?
That would render him the top ace of that unit.

Kind regards,

Michael

Re: Anton Benning & Walter Loos
 

Hi Michael

Any claims he made that I don't have are likely to be with JG301, one would think fourteen, but just don't know. Walther Dahl quotes him as being with Stab./JG300, but as you can see with the Dahl thread it is very possible that this is made up, Dahl perhaps still believed Loos was with JG300, with his Ritterkreuz award Loos is listed as being with JG301.

Kind Regards

Johannes

Re: Anton Benning & Walter Loos
 

Good evening Johannes,

if I interprete your Loos kill list (confirmed+unconfirmed) correctly, then Loos has:

• 13 JG3 claims
• 7 JG300 claims
• 4 JG301 claims (if the claim on 25Apr is included)

If we assume the unknown claims to have been scored in JG301 that would make 18 JG301 claims, wouldn't it ?

Have a nice weekend,

Michael

Re: Anton Benning & Walter Loos
 

I've worked through the Flugbuch of Walter Loos. It includes a list of 19 kills until 29Aug1944 plus one unconfirmed on 30Sep. That list was made for his Knight's Cross recommendation.