Douglas A 20 Havoc 43 - 9436
 

Question should be in Far East Forum - I have put it there (not a great start to my first attempt to start a thread!)

I am seeking information about USAAF Douglas A 20 G Havoc 43 - 9436, which I understand operated in the South West Pacific, specifically in Papua New Guinea.

I would appreciate any information about unit, operations, markings, camouflage or related details.

Thank you

Re: Douglas A 20 Havoc 43 - 9436
 

From Joe Baugher's page:

9436 ('Big Nig', 89th BS) force-landed in Bumbura Swamp, New Guinea 1944 and abandoned. Salvaged Aug 16, 1944. Recovered 1994 for use by RAAF Museum in restoration of A-20s A28-8 and 42-86786. Remains of this aircraft noted in storage at RAAF Amberley, Australia November 2002, for disposal by RAAF Museum now that their two A-20 restorations are complete.

Re: Douglas A 20 Havoc 43 - 9436
 

give me some time and I might be able to find a photo and maybe some other info.

(my main interest is in these planes use in the USSR, but in researching that there are many general references, too)


anything specific you are looking for?

Re: Douglas A 20 Havoc 43 - 9436
 

Gentleman:

As a new member of this community, I am continuely surprised by the breadth of knowledge of its members, and their efforts to assist others. Your timely responses are so in character.

A member of my family is involved with an organisation which has acquired components, including the largely intact fuselage of 43 - 9436, for a restoration project. I am attempting to obtain information about the aircraft's history and markings/camouflage to contribute to the project. Please contact me via private message/e-mail if you would like more background.

Anyway, thanks you for the information you have provided so promptly. I am not familar with the page you mention, could you let me know its address?

Cheers

Boomerang

Re: Douglas A 20 Havoc 43 - 9436
 

sorry I have not been able to find any photos of this plane.
however, I have some photos of some of the other planes in the unit.
I can post scans if you like.
research indicates she is an A-20G-25-DO that means she was most likely painted in the factory using Olive Drab ANA 613 , Medium Green ANA 612 in blotches on the leading and trailing edges of the wings and tail and ANA 603 Neutral/Sea Grey for the bottom (this grey has a little blue in it)
the tail has a green tip with a white border beneath. the exact color is unknown to me but has been suggested as Medium Green FS 34102, but this did not exist untill 1956. (I suspect ANA 503 Willow Green)
it has also been suggested that each squadron in the group had different colors on the tip of the tail.
a little bit off-topic is that Italeri has re-issued Amt/ertl kit of the A-20G and includes decals for "Big Nig"
I can post a scan of that if you like.(and it even has the Grim Reapers emblem)

Re: Douglas A 20 Havoc 43 - 9436
 

Kurlannaiskos:

The information in your post was precisely what I am seeking, thank you very much indeed.

I would be very grateful for scans of other unit aircraft and the Italeri kit you mention, via the main board or private message - whatever suits you.

Cheers

Boomerang

Re: Douglas A 20 Havoc 43 - 9436
 

I have made a few scans but have many more to make.
it may take a couple of days.
in the mean time this aircraft is of interest in another forum.
http://www.airwarfareforum.com/viewt...=5693&start=15

since you asked about other planes in the same unit I actually have more on them.
including a good quality photo is "Little Isadore" (43-9478 "H" )that proves the medium green blotches. as it turn out "Little Isadore" is included for the original release of this kit (AMT/ERTL 8894)

Re: Douglas A 20 Havoc 43 - 9436
 

hello,

Have you looked in on the 3rd BG site via the armyairforces.com web site ? Good photos of crews in there.

or the PacALD site that deals with Pacific Aircraft losses at pacald.net ?

or look in "The Grim Reapers" by Lawrence Cortesi. From page 90 3rd May 1944 43-9436 A-20 2Lt. Thomas J. Reading 89 Sqdn Returned to Duty. Remarks: North of Annenberg.

Alex

Re: Douglas A 20 Havoc 43 - 9436
 

Gentleman:

Thank you for those excellent sources, which I am following up

Clearly there is a very useful amount of information about 43 - 9436 available.

Regards

Boomerang

Re: Douglas A 20 Havoc 43 - 9436
 

Re: Douglas A 20 Havoc 43 - 9436
 

Hello All..

New guy here.. My name is Bill Swain and my dad flew in the 8th Sqdn of the 3rd Attack Group, known as the Grim Reapers.. I have many photo's posed on Pete Dunn's website, the AAF site and have just recently started posting on the AWF site. I sponsored the 3rd/89th Assn. Reunion a couple years back, so know most of the 8th and 89th Sqdn people still with us.
Now to "Big Nig" Tom Reading's mount back then. I believe I have a pic of it, along with a vhs tape of it's recovery.. I'll contact some of the 89th people to see if anyone might have more..Mike Clairingbould has a pretty good write up about "BN" in his book "Forty 0f the FIFTH".

Regards,

Bill

Re: Douglas A 20 Havoc 43 - 9436
 

the second image is a scan of the Italeri kit decals (1/48th)
they are printed by Cartograf in Italy cartograf@cartograf.com
the color profile (that might be of a replacement aircraft) is from
Voina v Vozdukhe # 92 copyright 2001 by S.V. Ivanov, but it at least gives you some of what the colors look like.
the other images are from pages 131 and 134 of :
Douglas Havoc and Boston the DB-7/A-20 series by Scott Thompson
Crowood Aviation Series ISBN 1-86126-670-7
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/attach...1&d=1146861684
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/attach...1&d=1146862519
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/attach...1&d=1146862519
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/attach...1&d=1146862519
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/attach...1&d=1146862519

Re: Douglas A 20 Havoc 43 - 9436
 

OOPS ! the Grim Reaper image is actually off the internet...(can't remember where)
these other images are also available on the net , but they do not have the captions. (3 out of 4 pilot's are listed.)

I have a few other images but even with deleting an old image there still isn't enough room for me to upload it.

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/attach...1&d=1146863299
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/attach...1&d=1146863299
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/attach...1&d=1146863299
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/attach...1&d=1146863299

Re: Douglas A 20 Havoc 43 - 9436
 

hi kurlan,
the last 3 images you posted belong to Jack heyn, the originals are posted over on the airwarfareforum.com site

Re: Douglas A 20 Havoc 43 - 9436
 

Thank You SaginDragin !
I did not want anyone to think I was 'stealing' those images.
(must be suffering from CRS) :D
I much prefer that forum's upload capabilities as there is a larger limit size for images and no limit on the number per post , like here.
(NO offence intended for 12 O'CH)

Alex Smart , I hope that book you mention has something as the two websites are a bust !
(general info only):o

Re: Douglas A 20 Havoc 43 - 9436
 

Hi,

Very little on this aircraft, only what I have given already.
But also gives serials of A-24's through to b25's.

Alex

Re: Douglas A 20 Havoc 43 - 9436
 

Hello All..

Kurlan,
Your one pic that you posted showing the A-20's lined up is misidentified. Their actually 13th Sqdn planes.. Easy way to tell.. The 13th had "Oscar" on the nose, where the other Sqdns had "Oscar under or slightly forward of the horizontal stabilizer..Dick Walker, X-Co of the 13th, believes the pic was taken at Nadzab... Here's my good friend Jim "Two Gun" Brown in his 8th Sqdn G model "BUB'S BROTHER" Notice where "Oscar is painted"

Bill

Re: Douglas A-20 BOSTON 43-9436
 

the book it comes from only lists '3rd Bomb Group' and does not specify which squadron within the group.

that would be correct for 'Big Nig' and 'Little Isadore'
and would make 'Patches' also a member of 13 BS.

very interesting...do you know what color the fin/rudder tips are for the 8th,13th and 90th squadrons ?
why is the GrimReaper called 'Oscar' ?
do you know the meaning of 'Bub's Brother'?
when I saw the photo I quessed that bub was short for beilzabub , meaning another name for the devil.

Re: Douglas A 20 Havoc 43 - 9436
 

Hello Kurlan

that would be correct for 'Big Nig' and 'Little Isadore'
and would make 'Patches' also a member of 13 BS.


Yep, "Big Nig" and "Lil Isadora" were 89th .. "Patches was a 13th Plane..



do you know what color the fin/rudder tips are for the 8th,13th and 90th squadrons ?

8th - Yellow
13th - Red
89th - Green
90th - White


why is the GrimReaper called 'Oscar' ?


"Oscar" was the nickname given to the Skeleton..Don't know why, only know that's his name!!


do you know the meaning of 'Bub's Brother'?

Jim's brother, who was lost during the war, used to call Jim "BUB", so it was Jim's way of honoring him...


Bill

Re: Douglas A 20 Havoc 43 - 9436
 

two other pieces of information I forgot to divulge :

43-9436 was built in February 1944 and had fuselage number 1499
in white under the left tailplane.
this is seldom visible in photos (almost always in shadow)
but is in the location shown on the color profile posted above.

Re: Douglas A 20 Havoc 43 - 9436
 

kurlannaiskos:

Thanks again for the wealth of information you have provided.

Boomerang

Re: Douglas A 20 Havoc 43 - 9436
 

that is a much better reason for the name.
much better than my guess, but that is what happens when you do not have the facts.

I am also fond of the idea of honoring a lost brother...I know how that feels. http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/images/icons/icon9.gif

by the way... Thank You for the information you provided.
in the photos of the 13th BS the red would look like the green in period black-and-white images.