Heinrich zu Sayn-Wittgenstein
 

Hello,

has Heinrich zu Sayn-Wittgenstein scored all of his kills in the Ju 88 ?

Michael

Heinrich zu Sayn-Wittgenstein
 

Hi Michael

He was attached to I./NJG 1 equipped mainly with the Bf 110 during the Battle of the Ruhr and claimed five victories with this unit so it is possible that the answer to your question is no. Hopefully, others can add to or correct this.

Horrido!

Leo

Re: Heinrich zu Sayn-Wittgenstein
 

Hello Leo,

I know I shouldn't quote Wikipedia:
"Stationed at Gilze-Rijen the order was issued to convert to the Bf 110 night fighter. Sayn-Wittgenstein flew the Bf 110 for one short flight only, but on the night of 24 June 1943, the aircraft had technical problems and was considered unserviceable. Kümmeritz and Sayn-Wittgenstein took off in their usual Ju 88 C and shot down four Avro Lancaster bombers (victories 32–35). Sayn-Wittgenstein never flew another Bf 110 again, preferring his Ju 88 to the Bf 110."

These statement refers to
Knott, Claire Rose (2008). Princes of Darkness — The lives of Luftwaffe night fighter aces Heinrich Prinz zu Sayn-Wittgenstein and Egmont Prinz zur Lippe-Weissenfeld.

I dont't have this book. Could anyone have a look in this book to confirm that during this only Bf 110 flight nothing happened ?

Michael

Re: Heinrich zu Sayn-Wittgenstein
 

Good morning Gentlemen,

OSPREY will publish a Ju 88 volume in the Aircraft of the Aces series next January:
https://www.amazon.de/Aces-World-War...keywords=ju+88
I hope it'll make a definite statement if or if not Sayn-Wittgenstein has scored all his kills in that type.

Kind regards,

Michael

Re: Heinrich zu Sayn-Wittgenstein
 

...the new Ju88 book by OSPREY doesn't seem to reveal if Sayn-Wittgenstein scored all of his kills in a Ju88. :-(

Michael

Re: Heinrich zu Sayn-Wittgenstein
 

Whereas there are some very good volumes in the different Osprey series, they are hardly the best source for new and previously unpublished info.
The new Nachtjagd series by Theo Boiten would be a good first port of call for this kind of info

Re: Heinrich zu Sayn-Wittgenstein
 

...the book also indicates a Sayn-Wittgenstein total of 79.

Michael

Re: Heinrich zu Sayn-Wittgenstein
 

The Ju 88 was the most-built (2712) German nightfighter type although the two top-scoring nightfighter aces Schnaufer and Lent scored mainly in the Bf 110.
It was also the most-built (9344) German bomber type.
Was it also the most-built (1866) Germann WW2 reconnaissance type ?

Re: Heinrich zu Sayn-Wittgenstein
 

Hello Knusel,

You might be better off by starting a new thread?

KR Timon

Re: Heinrich zu Sayn-Wittgenstein
 

Good evening Timon,

this thread is actually about the significance of the Ju 88 in Sayn-Wittgenstein's career. I remember having read that he flew only one mission in another plane but I cannot relocate the source neither do I know if he scored in that mission.
Do you ?

Have a good weekend,

Michael

Re: Heinrich zu Sayn-Wittgenstein
 

Yes, I remember reading that too. That was on Wikipedia I believe.
I don't know if that's trustworthy. Maybe the Wikipedia page has been changed in the mean time, that you can't find the source anymore?

You too a good weekend!

Timon

Re: Heinrich zu Sayn-Wittgenstein
 

Yes, that sounds familiar
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinri...n-Wittgenstein
and the wording suggests that no kills were scored on that occasion.

Re: Heinrich zu Sayn-Wittgenstein
 

Here is an article from the FalkeEins blog that I think is helpful:


http://falkeeins.blogspot.com/2011/0...-fighters.html

Re: Heinrich zu Sayn-Wittgenstein
 

Yes, apropos Günther Bertram, have you ever come across a photo of this He 111 top scorer ?

Re: Heinrich zu Sayn-Wittgenstein
 

I have not.

Re: Heinrich zu Sayn-Wittgenstein
 

Neither have I. But I have a photo of joint He 111 two scorer Waldemar Teige.
See also my German nightfighter aces by plane type thread:
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showth...t=45031&page=7

Re: Heinrich zu Sayn-Wittgenstein
 

Try finding Claire Rose Knott's "Princes of Darkness", Ian Allan, 1-903223-95-6. It is a nice bio of both Heinrich Prinz zu Sayn-Wittgenstein & Egmont Prinz zur Lippe Weissenfeld.

(Sayn-Wittgenstein's first combat sorties were flown as an observer in He 111s in KG 1 in 1939 and early-1940.)

Re: Heinrich zu Sayn-Wittgenstein
 

I would second that. It mentions Zur Lippe-Weissenfeld's single victory only in a Do 17.

Re: Heinrich zu Sayn-Wittgenstein
 

How I read the Wikipedia article - a short flight - makes me think of a non-operational sortie.

Re: Heinrich zu Sayn-Wittgenstein
 

I once read a book about night fighters (it was about Helmut Lent, Heinz Schnauffer, Heinrich zu Sayn-Wittgenstein, etc.; it may have been The Lent Papers, but I'm not sure) and I remember they flew Bf 110s, but I may not remember exactly.

Re: Heinrich zu Sayn-Wittgenstein
 

Apart from giving the Bf 110 flight as being in late May 'Princes of Darkness' page 74 is very similar to the wikipedia quote in post 3 .

Regards
Brian Bines

Re: Heinrich zu Sayn-Wittgenstein
 

Do you mean his first kill (17Nov40) ?

Re: Heinrich zu Sayn-Wittgenstein
 

It seems as if at least three vom Say-Wittgenstein's kills were confirmed belatedly after his death. This might partly explain why is score is sometimes indicated as 79 and soemtimes as 83.