George Beurling--if looks could KILL!
 

I'm in the process of reading Brian Cull's 'Spitfires over Malta' & I came across a very striking photo of George Beurling, the Canadian Ace; I've heard in the past that he was not the most social fellow but that photo of him! If ever a man had a 'what the hell do YOU want?!' look on his face it was him; very bright & intense looking eyes--one could say 'scary looking'; I just wanted to comment--I don't think I've ever seen a photo quite like it;

NickM

Re: George Beurling--if looks could KILL!
 

I've had the same feeling of the man. For more info try:

http://archives.cbc.ca/IDC-1-71-177-...buzz_beurling/

a radio interview with George Beurling. Also try:

http://www.constable.ca/beurling.htm

http://101squadron.com/101real/people/beurling.html

Vic

Re: George Beurling--if looks could KILL!
 

There have been several recent books on the man published in Canada, try Googling his name for listings.

The CBC radio link above is interesting, as it perpetuates the myth of "pilot error" in his death in the Norseman crash in Italy. Several eye witness accounts report the aircraft attempting to return to the field with the engine on fire, hard to see how pilot error causes this. At least one of the new books lambasts the shoddy nature of the Italian accident investigation. This could explain the persistant rumour of anti-Israeli sabotage. Would anyone out there have more info on the crash?

Re: George Beurling--if looks could KILL!
 

Pierre Clostermann recounts in a very telling way in his book 'Flames In The Sky' the occasion he met Beurling and the particular attitute the man carried.

Does not make comfortable reading in terms of Canada's greatest ace but if true, then the way in which Beurling was summarily dealt with by the CO was entirely appropriate.

Re: George Beurling--if looks could KILL!
 

A good introduction to the Beurling story is Brian Nolan's 'Hero - The Falcon Of Malta' ( Blackwood, 1982 ).

The book is very frank about Beurling's difficult and troubled nature ( similar in many ways to Guy Gibson ). And yes - Beurling was quite a hit with the ladies....

Re: George Beurling--if looks could KILL!
 

I think that you need to expand on your off-the-cuff comparison of Beurling and Gibson. If I recall correctly, such criticism as there is of Gibson (and I haven't seen much) seem to centre on his attitudes towards subordinates: he is deemed a disciplinarian and a martinet. Hardly the same as the undisciplined Beurling. Both appear to have been self-centred, but that is not an unusual attribute in a successful wartime career.

Re: George Beurling--if looks could KILL!
 

Sorry Graham - I did not mean to be off-the-cuff or indeed critical. I was referring more to the restless nature and troubled personal life of both men; also the way in which they showed no particular sign of 'greatness' in their peacetime youth and educational record, in fact both were 'outsiders' in their way.

But come the war and they flourished under particular circumstances and became deeply unhappy when 'rested' or removed from the scene of action.

And finally, both made one seemingly unnecessary flight too many.

Not unique, I know, among WWII fighting men but even so, reading the biography mentioned above and Richard Morris' 'Guy Gibson' one does note many similarities.

Can I just stress again that I find both men deeply interesting personalities and have the greatest respect for their wartime record.

Re: George Beurling--if looks could KILL!
 

Off-the-cuff remarks? Is the pot calling the kettle black?

I find the remark about George Beurling being self-centred rather uncalled for. On, what basis, Graham? Could you please provide the forum with examples? If this is indeed the case, then why did Beurling spend “his” time with pilots teaching them the art of deflection shooting? Just ask Andy MacKenzie, DFC what he thought of Beurling – you’d be surprised. Without having my reference at hand, I believe Andy’s comment was something along the lines that I didn’t know how to shot down aircraft until Beurling showed me. Over the years I’ve managed to interview several pilots who flew with or knew Beurling and all but a couple of them had nothing but good things to say about Beurling. The ones that didn’t have anything nice to say were obviously jealous of the man because it was quite evident in their answers or the way the talked about him.

The CBC interview conducted with Beurling after the war is quite revealing and it offers a side of the man that, as far as I can tell, has gone unnoticed in the books and articles about the man. When the interviewer, Bob Bowman asked Beurling about reaching officer status, Beurling’s response is very interesting.

Bowman: “How’s it feel to be an officer, seeing that you’re supposed to dislike them?”
Beurling: “Well, that’s not exactly right that I hate officers. The thing is that an officer or AC2 are all the same to me if they are doing a job.”

Obviously, when Beurling acted in an undisciplined manner towards an officer maybe that was his method of showing his displeasure? I realize there are better methods to deal with incompetent people who hold authority but all that Beurling wanted to do was fly, hence his reluctance at becoming an officer. The infamous spat between W/C Hugh Godefroy and Beurling is well known and documented but from those who knew Godefroy, one gets a sense that he was self-centred and had an inflated ego. So, I can see why this all came about. Did Laddie Lucas have any trouble with Beurling? Not that I am aware of.

As far as I can tell George F. Beurling was a professional who understood his occupation and took it very seriously. I guess spending time studying and practicing the art of deflection shooting made him the odd man out because everyone else was either busy in the pubs or nursing a hangover. Then again, maybe that’s why he was so successful in shooting aircraft down while the others couldn’t hit a bull in the arse with a shovel.

Oh yes, Beurling was known on occassion to wear his battle dress void of ribbons. I guess that’s another trait of being self-centred?

Stephen

Re: George Beurling--if looks could KILL!
 

Martin: I didn't intend to seem critical, I just wanted to know more about your thinking. To me, they seem to have had very different personalities.

Stephen: re pot calling kettle black - I suppose your "others couldn’t hit a bull in the arse with a shovel." counts as a measured response? Consider Beurling's behaviour on return from Malta, his refusal to fit into the operational pattern of squadron life in the UK, his keeping himself to himself, refusing responsibility - does this fit the pattern of an outgoing personality?

Re: George Beurling--if looks could KILL!
 

Dave McIntosh describes a couple of encounters with Beurling in "Terror in the Starboard Seat" - he too make reference to Beurling's eyes.

Oh, in case I've not said it here before, *everyone* should read Terror in the Starboard Seat.

Re: George Beurling--if looks could KILL!
 

I can sense a tension in this thread which I certainly did not wish to initiate.

I'd just like to add that there is a most interesting description of Beurling in Laddie Lucas' book 'Malta - The Thorn In Rommel's Side' (Stanley Paul, 1992) in which Lucas is very frank about Beurling's initial weaknesses and subsequent strengths. An entire chapter is devoted to him and is entitled 'Pure Genius'.

Re: George Beurling--if looks could KILL!
 

Guys:

Yes, in 'Spitefires over Malta', in an early flight around Malta, Beurling decided to do suddenly engage in aerobatics--the rest of the flight thought he was taking evasive action & scattered; the flight leader, needless to say was furious---another flying officer ('Laddie' Lucas?) spoke to him & stressed the need for 'teamwork'; Beurling just replied 'sure, Boss' & the matter was closed--reportedly no one in the Malta squadrons had a problem with him again---
And even when he's smiling his eyes still look scary;

NickM

Re: George Beurling--if looks could KILL!
 

Hi guys

I have been following your discusson on Beurling with great interest, having written about him at some length in 'Spitfires over Malta' - in fact my co-author Frederick Galea and I are contemplating writing a book about him and his exploits (if there's room for another?!). At this point in time, all I would offer is that undoubtedly Beurling was a great natural marksman in the air and on the ground and probably shot down some 25 (substantiated) of his 32 victims, if not more. Few aces' records could stand such scrutiny, in my humble opinion. A note for Nick de Carteret and others - Clostermann's account of meeting Beurling at Catfoss Gunnery School in July 1944 is not correct - Beurling was back in Canada by then and was out of the RCAF!

Regarding Beurling's death at Rome - recent enqueries with the Italian Police suggest that records of the crash incident are no longer available, but Frederick has been given to understand that the initial reports were sketchy and non-conclusive. My own belief, for what it's worth, is that sabotage was a possibility (see my conclusions in 'Spitfires over Israel'). Others disagree.

NickM, to get back to your original point - yes, when I first saw that picture of Beuring I knew I had to use it. As you suggest, the eyes say it all!

Carry on the discussion - its great.

Cheers
Brian

Re: George Beurling--if looks could KILL!
 

Hi Brian....was this simply Closterman telling porkies again?? Did he have an axe to grind?

Re: George Beurling--if looks could KILL!
 

Hi Nick

Nice to meet you! It's a shame about Clostermann, isn't it? Why he didn't stick to telling his own story - which was certainly something to be proud off - a dozen kills or so, two DFCs (no DSO!) and a masterly way of catching the readers' attention, I just don't know. I didn't have any contact with him and he lost credibilty when I first studied the various squadrons ORBs many moons ago. He is just not recorded as having flown on as many of the sorties which he claimed in his book. Others took his record to pieces, it was not something in which I was interested in doing.

However, there is no excuse for much of what he wrote in 'Flames in the Sky' - not only the alleged meeting with Beurling, and the piece about Admirals Ugaki and Fukada (Chapter Nine) piloting Ohka flying bombs on suicide missions is not true, either. I've said my piece.

Cheers
Brian

Re: George Beurling--if looks could KILL!
 

Ditto Brian

The photo in this link looks contrived also. http://www.leisuregalleries.com/mmclasterman.jpg
Closterman appears to be wearing a DSO look alike of some sort and I don't believe he was ever awarded the US Distinquished Service Cross (second only to the Medal Of Honor) that he is pictured with here and the number of palm leaves on the Croix de Guerre seems to grossly exceed the nineteen that he reputably was awarded.

Re: George Beurling--if looks could KILL!
 

Wow!

I haven't seen this picture before - doesn't leave much room for the kitchen sink, does it?!! I don't mean to sound derogatory, but take away his good looks and he could be mistaken for a Russian general! Sorry, only joking in case anyone is about to take offence. I didn't have that many badges when I was in the Boy Scouts!

Let's hope that someone can properly identify and certify the awards indicated, and I will certainly eat humble pie!

Anon

Re: George Beurling--if looks could KILL!
 

Brian, it is certified that he was never awarded the British DSO as you said or the American DSC...I believe he may have legitimately won the US Silver Star, a lower award than the DSC.

Pierre Clostemann
 

Hi Nick - I think its about time one or two of our French experts stepped in, don't you? So I've headed this Clostermann rather than Beurling.

I know very little about medals and even less about Clostermann's postwar career. Did he remain in the air force? Could some of those be postwar awards? It looks to me as though there are a couple of Russian medals included. Any ideas? Was Clostermann commissioned into the RAF or did he just wear honourary insginia? I believe I have seen a photo with squadron leaders tags but that would have necessary
made him a a sqn ldr, perhaps acting sqn ldr or acting flight lieutenant.

Come on Laurent, Joss and others - have your say!

Cheers
Brian

Pierre Closterman
 

I'm guessing the subject may be a little too sensitive at this time.

Re: George Beurling--if looks could KILL!
 

Hi Guys
going back to Beurling - had he been in the USAAF he certainly would not have been discharged from the service while hostilities were still ongoing,he would probably been given a unit to cover him while he went on to shoot down another 20 + victims.
However it seems that the RCAF,RAAF and the RNZAF had a very strange outlook regarding pilots who had been successful in combat as many were
really badly done to by the higher ranking stay at home officers who were calling the shots on promotion etc. see The Blue Arena et al.
By the way not only Clostermann tended to gild the lily - Bob Tuck was given to slightly doing the same
Bruce