Unknown Jet Part Recovered from Freeman Field
 

Hey guys,

I recently acquired all the items that were dug up at Freeman Field the past 2 years.

This Jet Engine part is one of them.

All items were part of Operation Lusty, which included aircraft and rare German Italian, Japanese, and British engines.

For the life of me, I cannot ID this item...it appears to be the rear end of a Jet engine...

Anyone have any thoughts?

TIA

Mike

Re: Unknown Jet Part Recovered from Freeman Field
 

looks like item 24 Muftel

Re: Unknown Jet Part Recovered from Freeman Field
 

HI!

Thanks for the reply...

:)

I actually have one of those, and this unknown parts is about 3x larger.

:(

Fairly sure it is not Jumo004...


Mike

Re: Unknown Jet Part Recovered from Freeman Field
 

My two cents, RR Derwent engine part?

ClinA-78

Re: Unknown Jet Part Recovered from Freeman Field
 

Muffel:

http://www.deutscheluftwaffe.de/arch...lides/0012.jpg

Regards

RolandF

Re: Unknown Jet Part Recovered from Freeman Field
 

Hi Mike

Toying with the idea that it may be from a BMW 003. Still looking into what it could be.

Vince...

Re: Unknown Jet Part Recovered from Freeman Field
 

For sure not Jumo004. It is about 2 feet across, and the Jumo004 part that is being suggested is about 1/4 the size.

:(

My thought is that is the back end of the jet engine (?).

There were some BMW003 fan blade sections in the mix...but after looking at various walkaround photos, I cannot see this part either...

:(

These were also parts from a Heinkel HeS 8 Jet engine...but not that either from what I can see...not too many photos of that around, due to rarity.

Mike

Re: Unknown Jet Part Recovered from Freeman Field
 

Thanks Mike
Good to have the other dimension. I'll let you know what I find.

Vince...

Re: Unknown Jet Part Recovered from Freeman Field
 

Hi Mike

Although not definitive, possibly Japanese Ishikawajima Ne-20 used on the J9Y Kikka. Only jet engine from that period so far that has similar characteristics to your part, however as mentioned before nothing definite.
Also, the holes on the larger part seem to be mounting holes used to mount this part to another component of the engine. Could you confirm that these are threaded?
Thanks

Vince...

Re: Unknown Jet Part Recovered from Freeman Field
 

Also, could be one of either part off of Caproni C.C.2 or Yokosuka "Ohka". In any case still a nice challenge.

Vince...

Re: Unknown Jet Part Recovered from Freeman Field
 

Double-checking...

The outside diameter is 17" approx. (largest part).

The holes are threaded...

Re: Unknown Jet Part Recovered from Freeman Field
 

Dear Mike and Vince,

I've been following this thread and have hesitated to offer a suggestion. It might possibly be a lead-in shroud in front of the complex flow impeller to one of the bench test HeS 011's. The progress on the HeS 011 was incredibly slow, so each of the bench test prototypes was likely different from the next. This piece looks incredibly heavy, but that would not be a consideration in a bench test prototype.

Of course, I could be off my a mile.

Regards,
Richard

Re: Unknown Jet Part Recovered from Freeman Field
 

Hi Richard

Thank you for the suggestion, I was just this evening going through some possible engines and recalled seeing similar indentations and characteristics on the Freeman Field Face Book page.
I concur with your observations and would agree the most probable candidate would be the He S 011. Link below.
The example that Mike provided seems to have the elliptical shaped rods which look like they were cut either during the manufacture of the part or possibly afterwards at Freeman and possibly served some aerodynamic function. Just my opinion.

Thanks again Richard.

Vince...
https://www.facebook.com/10077655998...type=3&theater

Re: Unknown Jet Part Recovered from Freeman Field
 

I think you guys just nailed it on the head!!

See attached photo.

The reason I did not even think it was He S 011, is because the group said they kept all the parts from that engine...

This part also has the holes that line up around the side...the spaced holes on the rectangular cutouts...etc.

Construction definitely points to He S 011...

:)

Re: Unknown Jet Part Recovered from Freeman Field
 

Hi Mike

The similarity of the parts is uncanny but as to where on the engine or test bed your part fit is another story. IMHO possibly parts brought back along with the He S 011 engine.
But I would agree from the evidence so far it's more than likely Heinkel.

Best

Vince...

Re: Unknown Jet Part Recovered from Freeman Field
 

Ja,

Part of the issue is only 1 or two exist...and no decent walkaround photos or parts manual... :(

Mike

Re: Unknown Jet Part Recovered from Freeman Field
 

I hear ya Mike. Some photos on line are of more recent models, if I can use that terminology and some grainy B&W's. However I would like to research it some more in the coming days or months to see if anything else shows up. Ya never know. But for now I agree it's part of the He S 011.



Vince...

Re: Unknown Jet Part Recovered from Freeman Field
 

Dear Mike and Vince,

Mike, the first of your most recent photos appears to be a different part from the one you first showed. Also, to the right, appears to be at least one oxidized cast aluminum part. Do these parts at all fit together?

As I understand the story, von Ohain had been constricted by the RLM in the design of the HeS 011 and, at the end of the war, ordered that all of the prototypes be destroyed in hopes of landing a contract with the U.S. to build more, free from the RLM constraints. IIRC, the U.S. Navy did order 12 new HeS 011's to be built. I've never been able to find the records of the Navy actually testing one of them.

If you refer to Antony Kay's book German Jet Engine and Gas Turbine Development, 1930-1945, page 44, Tony shows a photo of the 109-011 V1, which is far different from the post war version. If von Ohain destroyed the prototypes, what you may have is a mish-mash of prototype parts scrounged from his facility and brought back to the U.S. The fact that all you have are remnants tends to support this thesis.

Then, again, these parts might be to one or more engines that we simply don't have enough information upon which to draw a firm conclusion. Basically, I don't want to rah-rah us into a conclusion that we may not have adequate evidence to support.

Regards,
Richard

Re: Unknown Jet Part Recovered from Freeman Field
 

Hi Richard

IMHO the cast part does not seem to be part of the same engine. I agree that the parts may have been a conglomeration of engine parts or possibly the entire engine, but that would raise the next question of where the sections of the four compressor and two turbine stages went / are. I read in an old Flight magazine that three experimental and six prototypes of the He S 011 were constructed. One photo from the Freeman dig does show a casting mark of 109-011. I saw one engine photo of if I recall was a BMW 003 that was labelled NAS San Diego however I can't find any documents on that stage of investigation by the Navy.
Further investigation is required to definitively ID this part and model.

As always thanks for the input and update.

Best

Vince...

Re: Unknown Jet Part Recovered from Freeman Field
 

Hey Guys!

What I do now for sure is that in 1945, most parts from Wright Field were transferred to Freeman. So none of these parts are remains from post-war-engines. I was told without a doubt that they found the remains of a HeS 011.

The pic above are from the Freeman Field page on facebook. The pic on the right is the part I have.

A lot of prototype engines and parts were found...many incomplete. For example, they never brought up a "complete" engine...not even a DB601 or 605. Engine blocks and parts, yes...but it seems like the entire dig consisted of spare parts (7 unused Me109 tail gear, for example)

Most of the blades/fan blades were 004 and 003. I have some of those here.

Mike