Storch forced down by Meteor
 

Hi,

Would anyone have any details of a Storch that was forced down by a 616 Squadron Meteor on 2nd May 1945?

From what I can gather a Meteor, EE243 YQ-F, flown by Fly Off Stodhart encountered the Storch during a patrol. The Storch pilot flew too slowly for the Meteor pilot to get in an effective shot. Eventually the Storch pilot landed and the Meteor then destroyed the aircraft on the ground.

Any help would be appreciated.

Alex

Re: Storch forced down by Meteor
 

Chances of such records still existing as the incident was so late in the war especially when the pilot appears to have got away is remote. I have the RAF pilot at Fg Off A Stodhard but according to Graham Pitchfork's history of 616 Sqn, this occurred 3 May 45 at Schonberg and the pilots were Wg Cdr W E Schrader and Flt Lt Tony Jennings?

Re: Storch forced down by Meteor
 

Hi Chris,

Thanks for your reply. I wasn't sure if any info would be available of this incident but thought I'd give it a try.

Wg Cdr Schrader and Flt Lt Jennings did claim a Storch on 3rd during a strike on Schonberg airfield. They also claimed 2 Ju87s, 2 He111s and a single Bf109 as well.

Info from 616 Sqn ORB.

Alex

Re: Storch forced down by Meteor
 

All he mentions in the book is destroying transport on 2 May 45

Re: Storch forced down by Meteor
 

Good evening Gentlemen,

check you this appealing article
https://www.keymilitary.com/article/meteors-over-reich

Cheers,

Michael

Re: Storch forced down by Meteor
 

So,

Was F/O Stodhart credited with an aerial victory or ground victory (destroyed on the ground), on the 2nd May 1945? Is there a File AIR 50 for that combat sortie?

A.

Re: Storch forced down by Meteor
 

The list is online: https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...ro=any&_st=adv

Re: Storch forced down by Meteor
 

This is the point Nick...there is NOTHING for Stodhart, or May 1945 claims when you use the SEARCH facilities.

This is why I asked...maybe the Combat Report exist, but it is not there...

A.

Re: Storch forced down by Meteor
 

Could not find much but the 616 ORB online says on the 3rd W/C Schrader and F/L Jennings attacked the airstrip at Schonberg destroying 6 a/c including the Storch on the ground . A quote from 616 squadron diary online says the CO and Tony Jennings destroyed two He 111s , two Ju 87s and a Me 109 at Schönberg. On the return to base Tony saw and attacked a Storch which eventualy landed with the pilot and a second person getting out and running away . Tony destroyed the aircraft but made no attempt to kill the pilot .

Regards
Brian Bines

Sources - 616 Sqd ORB from PRO - online
Royal Air Force Historical Society Journal 53 pages 47, 48 - online

Found the 616 ORB again and although its hard to read it looks like a Storch was destroyed on the ground on the 2nd , its just shows F/O Stodhart , F/L Jennings ,P/O Miller and W/O Wilkins followed by Storch destroyed on the ground .

Re: Storch forced down by Meteor
 

Brian Bines, thank you for your answer and the information from the ORB.

I guess you answered my doubt: I thought that since the Fi 156 was initially flying and was forced to land (thankfully for the LW airmen it could land pretty slow and in a short space) and was later destroyed on the ground; my doubt was HOW was it "officially" claimed (or could be claimed) by the RAF airman?

Shot down? Destroyed on the ground (ground victory)?

Since there is no recorded "Combat Report" from F/O Stodhart for the 2nd May 1945 on Files AIR 50 (which I understand and comprehend that it was ONLY filled for Air Victories), his claim was, as you quoted from the ORB, officially registered as one "destroyed on the ground".

Thank you for your clarification.

A.

Re: Storch forced down by Meteor
 

In the recent book Combat Meteors by Alex Crawford he lists 616 Sq being in combat both on the 2nd and 3rd
of May.
In both cases one Fi 156 was destroyed on the ground.

On the 2nd both F/O Miller, P/O Stodhart and W/O Wilson claimed one
On the 3rd F/Lt Jennings claimed one

Cheers
Stig

Re: Storch forced down by Meteor
 

Good afternoon Gentlemen,

the British failed to expose their most advanced aircraft design to real fighter-vs-fighter combat before the Luftwaffe was overwhelmed by piston-engined aircraft. Furthermore, the end of war was just days ahead. Might this have been contributed to the lack of interest in adding the limited results of the Meteor to the official files meticulously ?

Cheers,

Michael

Re: Storch forced down by Meteor
 

In the absence of combat reports for 616 Sqd. the ORB for the 2nd May gives t/up 1230- t/down 1325 hrs and for the 3rd t/up 1835- t/down 1915 hrs for those involved in the Storch shot downs .

I had read about Storchs being attacked with the occupants making a run for it after crash-landing but did not previously associate it with Meteors . I checked some old research and found I had these;-

2nd May claim for a Storch around 1200hrs by F/O Tex Gray in a Typhoon of 439 Sqd RCAF in the Schönberg area . The Storch pilot was attempting to pancake in a field but was hit by a long burst from Gray the e/a exploded and burned .

3rd May Tempests of 3 Sqd were on an armed recon. Kiel area t/up 0545 - t/down 0655 hrs . Blue section spotted a Storch which made a hurried crash landing with two occupants running out just before F/L Longley and W/O Saunders made firing passes on the crash. F/Lt Hughes Red 1 dived down on a second Storch which landed with both occupants fleeing before he hit it with a 2 sec burst the e/a disintegrated and went up in flames . Hughes while on an evening patrol later claimed a Fw 44 in the Itzenhoe area

Re: Storch forced down by Meteor
 

AIR 24/653 Statistics of Combats and Casualties in ADGB., Fighter Command and 2 TAF; Vol 4 has the following claims:

May 2nd
616 Sqn F/O Stedhart Fi.156 1 DES on ground area T.0488. With the note “Confirmed”

May 3rd
616 Sqn, Fi.156 1 Destr, Me.109 - 1 Destr, He.111 - 1 Destr, Ju.87 - 1 Destr + 1 Dam, Ju.52 - 1 Dam, all on ground A/F at C.8342. With the note “Claims allowed”

Observe the file includes both the claims made and final assessment of the claims.

Cheers
Peter

Re: Storch forced down by Meteor
 

Hello Peter,

that sounds definite. Thanks for sharing.
Is the spelling of Mister Stedhart correct ?

Cheers,

Michael

Re: Storch forced down by Meteor
 

PETER,

I do also thank you for the confirmation and document reference (AIR 24). Most welcomed answer.

A.

Re: Storch forced down by Meteor
 

Sorry, correct spelling is Stodhart but I had to zoom in to see that it was an "o".

Cheers,
Peter

Re: Storch forced down by Meteor
 

Peter

Hats off to the Swedish south coast!! :)

Cheers
Stig

Re: Storch forced down by Meteor
 

Thanks for the clarification.
That means that the officially acknowledged WW2 claim list of the Gloster Meteor looks like this, doesn't it?:
04.08.1944 V1 T.D. Dean
04.08.1944 V1 J.K. Rodger
07.08.1944 V1 T.D. Dean
10.08.1944 V1 T.D. Dean
16.08.1944 V1 W. McKenzie
16.08.1944 V1 M. Mullenders
17.08.1944 V1 Assy
17.08.1944 V1 Ritch
17.08.1944 V1 Sid Woodacre
19.08.1944 1/2 V1 G. Hobson
19.08.1944 V1 Les Watts
28.08.1944 V1 G. Hobson & Epps
29.08.1944 V1 Miller
24.04.1945 Ju 88 DAM OTG Andrew McDowall
02.05.1945 Fi 156 DES OTG A. Stodhart
03.05.1945 Fi 156 DES OTG G.P. Jennings
03.05.1945 Ju 87 DES OTG Warren Schrader & G.P. Jennings
03.05.1945 Ju 87 DAM OTG Warren Schrader & G.P. Jennings
03.05.1945 He 111 DES OTG Warren Schrader & G.P. Jennings
03.05.1945 Ju 52 DAM OTG Warren Schrader & G.P. Jennings
03.05.1945 Bf 109 DES OTG Warren Schrader & G.P. Jennings

Re: Storch forced down by Meteor
 

hello Knusel
According to 616 Sqn ORB and Harkins' RAF Meteor Fighters in WWII An Operational Log Hobson claimed on 19 Aug 44 1½ V1s.

Re: Storch forced down by Meteor
 

A peacetime record, or a typo for 1944?

Re: Storch forced down by Meteor
 

My typo, now corrected.

Re: Storch forced down by Meteor
 

Good evening Juja,

I compiled the V1 kills by combining this thead
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showth...odger+mckenzie
with this website
http://www.aces.safarikovi.org/victo...llied-jet.html
I believed that the 1+1sh V1 claims for Hobson mentioned in the latter were claimed on 19Aug and 28 Aug as indicated in the former.

Best greetings, sincerely,

Michael

Re: Storch forced down by Meteor
 

This is getting off topic, which was a particular Storch. A discussion of V1 kills by Meteor pilots belongs on the Allied board.

Re: Storch forced down by Meteor
 

Hello Juha,

in John Guttman's book FIGHTING FIRSTS p297 a total of 13 V1's destroyed by Meteors is mentioned. But we don't know if this includes Hobson's half share.

On p299 the fight on 2May is described:"...a Fieseler Fi 156 Storch but the nimble liaison plane was able to outmanoeuvre the fighter and landed - after which the Meteor strafed it to destruction..."

Have a good start into the weekend,

Michael