Eagle Squadron Loss from Friendly Fire
 

Hello all,Had the opportunity over the weekend to read the excellent and compelling book by the Canadian wireless operator, Howard Hewer titled “ In for a penny in for a pound”. (ISBN 0-7737-3273-x)One intriguing part of the book especially for me was Hewers crew’s encounter with and subsequent destruction of an American Aircobra * on a fighter affiliation exercise. The pilot apparently from one of the “Eagle” Squadrons survived, if but with a broken leg.There is no date given about the encounter however it would have been mid 1941 when No.218 (B) Squadron was based at RAF Marham. Hewer gives a rather candid account of the “bollocking” the crew received via Group Captain Combe upon their return. I would appreciate any details on this incident. It is not mentioned in the Marham Station Records Book. Any help would be appreciated. TIASteve* Or Spitfire ?

Re: Eagle Squadron Loss from Friendly Fire
 

Given that the Airacobra identification is probably wrong, and assuming that Hurricanes and Spitfires would have been correctly identified, it is worth considering that P-40s were used for bomber affiliation training. But nor by the Eagle Squadrons.

Re: Eagle Squadron Loss from Friendly Fire
 

Hi Graham,The author is very specific in that the pilot was American and so was the squadron. Given that the US was not at war at the time (mid 1941) the only American squadrons operational from the UK I believe were No.71 & 121 (F) Eagle Squadrons.

Re: Eagle Squadron Loss from Friendly Fire
 

Having had the opportunity to view the 218 Squadron ORB last evening I can narrow the ‘incident’ date down between September 18th and October 5th 1941.Regards

Re: Eagle Squadron Loss from Friendly Fire
 

Hi guys

Being one of the many current flu suffers, my mind isn't fully in gear, but didn't 6-1 Squadron operate Airacobras at this time. Not in a position to check at the moment.

Cheers
Snuffy Brian

Re: Eagle Squadron Loss from Friendly Fire
 

Hi,
Yes 601 Sqdn RAF did use the Airacobra.

I take it that the shoot down was achieved by a 218 Sqdn aircrew in 1941, as I do not have the book to check details refered too above.

From August 41 to March 42.

From Air Britain AA100 to AZ999
AH576 Bellylanded Mildenhall 29/8/41.
AH581 Crashed on approach Debden 13/12/41.
AH582 Control lost during aerobatics. Dived into yard Gwynne Street Chappel, Bedford 19/10/41.
AH596 Crashed in forced landing 6m NNE of Colchester, Essex 30/9/41.
AH598 (3FPP) Engine cut stalled dived into ground near Fingland. Cumberland 15/11/41.
AH601 Engine cut bellylanded at Duxford, DBR. 12/12/41.
AH603 Engine cut on take off Duxford 21/11/41.
I fear none of the above fit the story .
As far as US forces in the UK at this time I expect that they were only advisers.

The P40
Again in RAF use.
I could only find the following -
24/11/41
AH773 26 Sqdn Shot down off Ambleteuse pilot rescued from Channel.
13/12/41
AH865 400 Sqdn Shot down 12m off Etaples by Fw190 of JG2.
AH??? 400 Sqdn Shot down ??? details not known .

Thats all I could find for 1941. There may well have been other incidents but I fully expect that they would not have been US aircraft. Pilots maybe but aircraft no.
It is very possible that the pilot was American serving in the RAF or RCAF and might have been at this time with attached to an Eagle squadron for some reason or other, rather than being in the squadron.

Alex

Re: Eagle Squadron Loss from Friendly Fire
 

Hi again,
To help with the Eagle Sqdns.
These are what I have on both 71 and 121 for 1941.
71 Sqdn.loses
05/01/41 Hurricane
09/02/41 Hurricane
15/02/41 Hurricane
17/05/41 Hurricane
02/07/41 Hurricane
19/08/41 Hurricane
27/08/41 Spitfire
07/09/41 Spitfire
07/09/41 Spitfire
07/09/41 Spitfire
07/09/41 Spitfire
07/09/41 Spitfire
17/09/41 Spitfire
13/10/41 Spitfire
20/10/41 Spitfire
27/10/41 Spitfire
01/11/41 Spitfire

121 Sqdn
21/06/41 Hurricane
27/06/41 Hurricane
27/06/41 Hurricane
20/08/41 Hurricane
02/10/41 Hurricane
02/11/41 Hurricane
02/11/41 Hurricane
02/11/41 Hurricane
07/12/41 Spitfire
12/12/41 Spitfire

If any of the dates fit the story then you have your story match.
Please let us know.

Alex

Re: Eagle Squadron Loss from Friendly Fire
 

Hi guys

Off course there were many US pilots in RAF/RCAF undergoing fighter training at various OTUs/and with various RAF squadrons at that time, so some real detective work is probably required to get to the bottom of this one. I haven't seen Hewer's book yet, so where did the shoot down occur? Perhaps then we can establish which fighter units where based in the area. Just an idea.

Cheers
Brian

Re: Eagle Squadron Loss from Friendly Fire
 

Thanks for your continuing efforts. Unfortunately Hewer’s book does not give specific dates and the details regarding the incident are rather vague.Checking the squadron Operational Records Book, and Marham’s Station Records there is no mention at all regarding this incident, which I find rather strange. The entries for the period other than operational matters are mostly concerning fighter affiliation and the usual air-tests, no locations or areas are record. The only specific details given is that the pilot was an American, and was operating with the “Eagle” Squadron.Thanks again for your interest.

Re: Eagle Squadron Loss from Friendly Fire
 

Hi Smudger

Is there any chance of copies of the paragraphs that cover the shoot down, or is the piece too long?

Cheers
Brian

Re: Eagle Squadron Loss from Friendly Fire
 

Re: Eagle Squadron Loss from Friendly Fire
 

Hi Brian,Sorry about the delay in answering. Had the chance to visit Berlin this weekend. Will forward the paragraph in question this evening. Thanks for your interest.

Re: Eagle Squadron Loss from Friendly Fire
 

Hi Smudger

Hope you haven't forgotten?!!

Cheers
Brian

Re: Eagle Squadron Loss from Friendly Fire
 

Sorry for the delay, a recent trip to Berlin caused a slight delay. My body is still recovering.We flew a simple cross-country fuel consumption test that turned in to a bizarre experience. At one of our briefings, a Flight commander had told us that the Americans had formed one of their own squadrons, called “Eagle Squadron” that had gotten the into habit of making mock fighter attacks on our Wimpy. All very well and good except that they become bolder with experience and were coming far to close to our aircraft. The risk of collision was a possibility. It was suggested that our gunners might fire off a warning burst near but not at our American friends to discourage them from coming to close.About an hour into our flight, I heard Georges Cockney accent over the intercom, Captain, rear gunner, I’ve got one of those bleeding yanks fighters buzzing about our tails. It looks like an Airacobra; it’s too bloody close, can I give him a warning burst. Sgt “B” came back with “ OK, a short burst but be careful”The chatter of George’s Brownings had no sooner faded when Ted yelled out “Bloody Hell, I think George has shot the basterd down, he’s bailing out”.Ted contacted the nearest airfield and reported the bail out so a search could begin. When we arrived back at Marham we were informed that the American pilot had survived, but with a broken leg……..The rest of the story revolves around the “bollocking” the crew received. Not much to go on, no dates and no locations I’m afraid.

Re: Eagle Squadron Loss from Friendly Fire
 

Hi Smudger

Many thanks indeed. Do we know the identity of Howard Hever's crew?
Sgt B (pilot), George (AG) and Ted (observer?)

Your trip to Berlin sounds as though it was really exciting and tiring. Too much German beer?!

Cheers
Brian

Re: Eagle Squadron Loss from Friendly Fire
 

There was a problem with Hewers first pilot. Throughout the book Hewer express concerns about the flying ability and confidence of Sgt ‘B’ . Hewer only refers to him as Sgt ‘B’, I am aware of the pilot but have decided to keep to the original text. Sgt ‘B’ Pilot, Sgt Ted Crosswell, 2nd PilotSgt Len Mayer, ObserverSgt Hewer, WopSgt Munroe, Front GunnerSgt Roy Pearson, Observer, Sgt George Fuller, Rear GunnerThe trip was something else, much beer and fraternizing with the locals. Regards :-)

Re: Eagle Squadron Loss from Friendly Fire
 

Thanks Smudger - I'll let you know if I come up with anything.

Cheers
Brian