Poles in Lwf
 

Looking at the site of the VDK, I seen that a lot of "Poles", fight on the german side, what about those who were in the Lwf ?? Any list ?? Any book ?

Rémi

Re: Poles in Lwf
 

I would think that the only thing even remotely akin to the Poles flying for the Luftwaffe, would be the Germans with, say, the surname of the Polish origin from long time ago. I know of one Uffz. Gerhard Halupczek, who might fit the said profile... he fought in the Spanish Civil War and later changed his surname to, if I remember correctly, Herzog, in the spring of 1940.

Re: Poles in Lwf
 

Germans with polish names are a lot, but also what is polish name ?? Silesian name ???
In the case exposed by DVK, heras like the people who hv polish nationality in 1939, ..... but 20 years ago before they were germans ...


Rémi

Re: Poles in Lwf
 

I think that it would be best to let the Polish members of the TOCH answer your query what the Polish (sur)name is or was.

Polish people were always... Polish people, it is just that they were unfortunate enough to be conquered and divided by the more powerful, neighbouring nations, such as Germans, Austrians and Russians.

What you are arguing here is probably the citizenship. It is correct that at one time they were respectively considered German, Austro-Hungarian or Russian citizens, or subjects.

Sinisa

Re: Poles in Lwf
 

There was a very strong Polish community in the Ruhr area coming from Poland and/or upper Silesia working as steel workers or miners. They kept their Polish newspaper well into the 1920s as well as they are still bearing their -wski or -ek names until today. Same goes for Austrians of Slavian origin (polish, czech, slovakian, slowenian, ruthenian, ukrainian, croatian, bosnian etcetc.).Alone the names in Germany showing different origins should have proven the Nazi racial ideology as complete nonsense.

Regards

RolandF

Re: Poles in Lwf
 

As a Pole whose father fought the Germans right after the invasion of Poland, I can say only a few things. He was captured but not treated as a POW. He was in Germany as a forced laborer for the rest of the war. His country "no longer existed." It was now part of the Greater Reich. I am aware of no people that were Polish citizens joining the Luftwaffe.



Ed

Re: Poles in Lwf
 

Are you sure they were not ethinic Germans who lived in the independent Poland? I know many of them had a slavic Surname. In the eyes of German in WWII, Poles were subhuman, they may employed Poles in labor force or even in some kind of auxiliary arm force for local security duty, but as soldiers in the elite force such as Luftwaffe? it was unlikely.

Re: Poles in Lwf
 

The Luftwaffe did employ eligible men from the Alsace and Lorraine areas, so similar employment from Silesia/Danzig seems eminently likely. So perhaps the question should be phrased as whether anyone counting as a Polish citizen in August 1939 went on to serve in the Luftwaffe?

Once we start using phrases such as "ethnic Poles" we are in danger of treading in the same mire as the Nazis.

Re: Poles in Lwf
 

There is nothing wrong about using phrase such as "ethinic Pole" or "ethinic Irish" or "Ethinic Italian", it is only if we say an "ethinic Pole" or "ethinic Irish" or "Ethinic Italian" as a subhuman, then we are in danger of treading in the same mire as the Nazis, let us not be too PC than necessary

Re: Poles in Lwf
 

There were 620,000 Volksdeutsch living in the Wartheland and other German-annexed provinces of western Poland and 134,000 Volksdeutsch in Soviet-annexed eastern Poland in September 1939. A further 60,000 lived in the German-occupied region of Poland called the General Government (Generalgouvernement). Within several months, the 134,000 and the 60,000 were mostly resettled in the German-annexed areas. Beginning in 1940, a further 850,000 Poles applied for and officially became Volksdeutsch based on ancestry and other criteria. In 1942 all Poles who had lived under German rule prior to 1918 and their children were declared to be Volksdeutsch citizens. German conscription of Volksdeutsch in Poland began in 1940 with all males between 19 and 45 eligible. Towards the end of the war this was expanded to 16 to 60. At least 280,000 Volksdeutsch from Poland served in German uniform during the war and many of them were in the Luftwaffe. What we do not know is how many were trained and served as air crew. Remember, air crew personnel were less than 5% of the total strength of the Luftwaffe.

Source:
Ready, J. Lee. World War Two Nation by Nation. London: Arms & Armour Press, 1995. Pages 237-45.

L.

Re: Poles in Lwf
 

On the Do24 Homepage under 'people' Henri Dannemark states his crew consisted of a German, a Pole, a Frenchman and a Belgium. There are a couple of books including 'The Forgotten Soldier' which seems to explain the situation as prior to 1919 a lot of people in Europe were born as German but had their nationalities changed in the hand over of former German territory following the Treaty of Versailles. After the German Invasion of 1939 their forces retook these areas and many people became German again, some serving in German forces. There are several references in 'K' reports to captured airmen being worried on capture because they were of Polish descent . I suppose these people fell under the change of status category described in 'The Forgotten Soldier'.

Re: Poles in Lwf
 

Yes, that was what I refered in my previous post, most likely they were so called Volksdeutsche, a term that was used by the Nazis to describe "Germans in terms of people or race", regardless of citizenship.

Re: Poles in Lwf
 

I confirm Brian´s statement. My grandfather was born Russian, became Lithuanian in 1919 and German in '39. He was drafted in the Wehrmacht and became officer until '45. Douglas Pitcairn of JG 51 was born German, became Lithuanian, too, and served in the German Luftwaffe though being of Scottish descent.

Regards

RolandF

Re: Poles in Lwf
 

Generally:
In the Third Reich in the interwar period was a very large Poles living in. They were primarily Poles natives from Silesia, Opole (approx. 700 000) and Warmia, Mazury and Powiśle (approx. 400 000), whose division boundaries after World War I has placed outside reborn homeland. To seek a also emigrants who settled in the depths of Germany for economic reasons before and after World War I (mass emigration lasted until 1932. When the borders of Germany were closed, and after 1937. When they return opened) . In the Ruhr there was also a large Poles living in, partly Germanized descendants of emigrants back to the second half of the nineteenth century, the so-called. "Ruhrpolen". It is assumed estimated that in the interwar period in Germany lived approx. 1.5 million of German citizens - Polish nationality.

website only in Polish: http://www.wehrmacht-polacy.pl/dlaczego_wcielano.html

S. Arczynski history of service in the Luftwaffe: http://www.wehrmacht-polacy.pl/biogram_arczynski.html

Kris

Re: Poles in Lwf
 

The S. Arczynski history is interesting but he was not aircrew. He was a photo lab technician developing aerial reconnaissance photos for 5.(H)/Aufkl.Gr. 32, then later a soldier with one of the Lw.-Felddivisionen, ending the war in Kurland.

L.