JU 188 Bomber Side Code ID?
 

Found a couple more photos of a German bomber at a local antique shop. It appears to be an Ju 188 with flak damage. The code on the side of plane is F2(very small letters) + SM. Might be a paint patch behind the small letters. There is an S on the tail with 3 very small figures above which I cannot read even with magnification. A US GI is standing in one photo. The background of the airfield is very generic. The back of the photo paper is marked "Velox".

Any observations from the experts here? I had a lot of informative fun on the last bomber photo that I found. Thank you.

Re: JU 188 Bomber Side Code ID?
 

Fuselage code is F2+SM. According to seller it is WNr.230133 photgraphed at Gardermoen, May 1945. I have another 2 photos from expired ebay.de auctions.
http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=880111
http://www.modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=880112
links to expired auction where are captions to photos 1. http://www.ebay.de/itm/Orig-Foto-JUN...p2047675.l2557 2. http://www.ebay.de/itm/Orig-Foto-JUN...p2047675.l2557

Re: JU 188 Bomber Side Code ID?
 

Hello Thomas,

For what it’s worth, in my Ju188 file WNr. 230133 is listed as being photographed at Braunschweig (or less likely Schweinfurt), Germany. The American uniforms on the men clustered around the aircraft would seem to support this.

This aircraft purportedly flew to Norway on 5 May 1945 and then returned to Germany with a load of passengers on 8 May 1945.

Steve Sheflin

JU 188 Bomber Side Code ID?
 

What a lucky time to have seen the ebay photos of same plane. Those photos show the side markings much better. Thanks for the corrections. I also note that what I thought was flak damage is just missing paint.
The small letters of F2 before the German cross, was that normal. Seems odd to me. Any idea what squad the plane was assigned too?

Note prices from German ebay are way high. Glad I found these photos in the US antique shops.

Would it be safe to assume the small 133 numbers above the larger S on the tail is part of the WNr.?

I forgot to report that the JU 188 two photos were with a small grouping of other ww2 paperwork. The name PFC. Richard Mailand of Co. D 359th
Engrs Regt. was on some of the papers. Maybe the records of this Regt. could pinpoint the photo location better?

Re: JU 188 Bomber Side Code ID?
 

The small number-letter codes for the first two places was getting more common toward the end of the war. The F2+ refers to a long-range reconnaissance replacement group or Erg. (F) Gr.

I have seen the letter S as a tail marking before, possibly on an Me-262. I cannot guess about the numbers above the S.





Ed

Re: JU 188 Bomber Side Code ID?
 

I did some research on the 359 Eng. Regt who were with the 9th Army. They ended at the Weser river in April/May 45. The airfield Braunsweig-Brottzem lists being captured by the 9th Army. So assuming the papers and photos of my little group were always together then it is possible the photos of this plane were taken there I guess. Wish I could read the sign in the ebay photo of the same plane but they are not clear to me.

Re: JU 188 Bomber Side Code ID?
 

Thank you Steve Sheflin for additonal info and corection.

Re: JU 188 Bomber Side Code ID?
 

Looking at the photo I would say, yes the 133 is part of the Wnr and the S on the tail must be the individual aircraft identifier repeated as per F2+SM.

Cheers
Stig

Re: JU 188 Bomber Side Code ID?
 

A Jim Crow photo identifies this aircraft as being photographed at Schweinfurt. Since he gathered most photos from veterans, it was where they remembered where they were taken, perhaps not completely accurate after 40 0r 50 years.

Best regards,

ArtieBob

Re: JU 188 Bomber Side Code ID?
 

Great information and observations from everyone. Thanks to all. Another fun aircraft photo project for me and a great learning experience. Incentive to find more aircraft photos now.

Re: JU 188 Bomber Side Code ID?
 

I think there are errors in the lists of surrendered/flown aircraft to Norway.
(meaning I think "flown to Norway" connection to 230133 could be false, it might be typo/error in this number in the original source)
Many other F2+ coded Ju 188 D-2s are reported flown "west", and none confirmed of Erg.Fagr. aircraft flown up to Norway. Most sources I have seen say either Kassel or Braunschweig. Number 133 on rudder does not automatically connnect to W.Nr, because other (many) Line Numbers are known from Ju 188´s. This might be remains of such number, but I am open to suggestions.

Re: JU 188 Bomber Side Code ID?
 

Read you Ed

But surely the digits are much more likely to be connected to a WNr than a line number? I have no verification of the other (non seen) digits though.

Cheers
Stig

Re: JU 188 Bomber Side Code ID?
 

Position of 133 on fin is not typical for that factory (230xxx), larger and elsewhere was norm. But yes, that position for 133 is known for that factory on forward fuselage,
BUT usually four digits (0xxx / 5xxx) followed by D or S or even S A3, or S U2

Re: JU 188 Bomber Side Code ID?
 

Gentlemen,

http://www.luftwaffe.no/SIG/1945/5MAI.html

The presence of Ju 188 D2 WNr. 230133 of 3.(F)/ 22 in Norway on 5 May 1945 with seven other aircraft of that unit, its absence from Norway on 10 May and its probable appearance at Braunschweig at the end of the war is consistent with that of other aircraft that participated in the Luftwaffe's Courland evacuation operation on 8 May 1945.

Best regards,

Jim Geens

Re: JU 188 Bomber Side Code ID?
 

Karoband / Jim, exactly this is NOT consistent - what you refer to is circumstantial, in my view. The aircraft of 3.(F)/22 have been reported fly to Copenhagen/Kastrup, after flying to Courland. Reason was most likely range. They had re-fuelled at Gardermoen, and (like some planes of III/KG 26) flew with sceleton crew (no gunners!) and returned (unrefuelled?) to Denmark, after safe (?) travel over the Östsee.

There is yet to surface concrete info on Ju 188 #133 F2+SM and Ju 188 D-2 230133 of 3.(F)/22 be same plane. Code F2+SM is NOT code of 3.(F)/22, but belonged to 4./Erg.FAGr. (a school unit). And there is no other info if them flying into Norway having code F2+_M or them not having code 4N+_L

-Ed

I am familiar with this at SIG Norway. There are suspected errors in it.

Re: JU 188 Bomber Side Code ID?
 

Hi Ed,

I agree. "Circumstantial" is a better word.

Jim

Re: JU 188 Bomber Side Code ID?
 

Gentlemen

While I agree with the circumstantial tag I also feel there was a lot of confusion during these last days of the war and various units probably flew whatever they could lay their hand on, and still some....

I don't believe we should look for persons having time to repaint aircraft to fit any particular unit at this stage and I equally don't think anyone gave a damn (if you pardon the expression), so going by the book Ed/Jim will be good in court but in reality?... well I don't know....you might be right...and then again you may not... :o

No offense to anyone, I am just the amateur trying to get the feel of what it would be like to be a looser in 1945...

Cheers
Stig

Re: JU 188 Bomber Side Code ID?
 

1.) http://www.ww2.dk/oob/bestand/aufkl/befagr.html

This is the strength report for 4./Erg.FAGr (listed as Erg.FAG or Erg.FAG. in some doctumets) listing amost others several (three) Ju 188 D-2 on strength until 12.44 - and one very rare "Ju 88 E". I do not recall seeing newer strength report for this unit after 12.44, but it may well be in Ultra somewhere. This unit recived several replacements in 1945 as follows (01 Jan to 11 Apr 45):

08 Jan 45 one Ju 88 D-1
11 Jan 45 one Ju 88 D-1
17 Jan 45 two Ju 188 F-1
21 Jan 45 one Ju 188 F-1
(No other found) RL 2 III 620

2.) http://www.ww2.dk/oob/bestand/aufkl/b3ag22.html

This is strength report for 3.(F)/22 - I had had Ju 188´s for long time, since 1943, and losses were not drastic. The Ju 188 D-2 230133 was likely produced in June 1944 (planes on either side are known in factory testing in June 1944), and four Ju 188 D-2 (new)replacements are known in 07.44 thru 09.44, and four after that. (Total eight) No (new)replacements found in 1945 (!?) - So I think plenty time paint correct codes. With little fuel for much flying I think there was ample downtime for recieving correct codes (!?)

Indeed, all known losses of unit 3.(F)/22 have 4N+_L code (one Ju 188 D-2 and several Ju 188 F-1). Three Ju 188 D-2 appear unaccounted (one OPS loss 08.44, one non-OPS loss 08.44, one OPS loss 11.44) and five flown to Norway (total eight - none directly issued, likely all recieved in via Luftflotten in the area). One more Ju 188 D-2 loss in 03.45 (4N+GL) and replacement issued, likely recieved via Luftflotten in area).
RL 2 III 619 + 620

Based (Ref: ww2.dk):
Jürgenfelde(?), 9.43 - 12.43 (Ju 188)
Riga-Spilve, 12.43 - 10.44
Powunden, 10.44 - 12.44
Zabeln, 12.44 - 3.45

And lastly correcting header of this thread: This (illustated) F2+SM was not (Level)Bomber, unless it was in fact an Ju 188 A-2. The 230133 of 2.(F)/22 was Ju 188 D-2 (Recce).

-Ed