Rudolf Hess May 1941
 

Hi guys

Out of curiosity!

Following Hess' flight to Scotland in May 1941, he was followed a few weeks later by a four-man assassination squad, or so I have been led to believe.

The squad apparently parachuted out of an aircraft on the night of 28 May and came down near Luton (?), were captured and executed.

If this is correct, who were they etc?

Cheers
Brian

Re: Rudolf Hess May 1941
 

Oh please...

Trip trap trip trap trip trap ...SLAM!

Re: Rudolf Hess May 1941
 

....& surely this is Second World War general question, not one Luftwaffe related?

Re: Rudolf Hess May 1941
 

Thanks for no information! Why bother to respond!

They jumped out of a Luftwaffe aircraft! Hence Luftwaffe question!

Move if desired.

Cheers
Brian

Re: Rudolf Hess May 1941
 

Thanks guys!

Did the incident not happen? I can't find any information on Google!

Cheers
Brian

Re: Rudolf Hess May 1941
 

Brian,

why no find on google ? I´m not an Heß-Expert - but it´s so easy to find informations about Heß.

What about this :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolf_Hess

Scroll down to Flight to Scotland. The page is english language.
Maybe this is one more mystery page what is true - what is a lie.
So than - jump in and find out :rolleyes:

Regards, Rainer

Re: Rudolf Hess May 1941
 

Hi Rainer

Thanks for your interest. However, I believe you misunderstand the question:

"Following Hess' flight to Scotland in May 1941, he was followed a few weeks later by a four-man assassination squad, or so I have been led to believe.

The squad apparently parachuted out of an aircraft on the night of 28 May and came down near Luton (?), were captured and executed."

I am aware of the Hess story - I am questioning whether there was such an assassination squad dropped into England?

Cheers
Brian

Re: Rudolf Hess May 1941
 

Maybe, Brian, you could provide the source of what has led you to believe in this?

Re: Rudolf Hess May 1941
 

Dear All,

Brian asks a straight forward question. There is no call for answers that are insulting.

Regards,
Richard

Re: Rudolf Hess May 1941
 

Richard,

I can't help it if he finds derision insulting. It is a patent BS-story.
So many of the Germans' cloak and dagger stories are readily available to read:

Operation Mickey Mouse (the kidnapping of Admiral Horthy's son, wrapped up in a carpet by Otto Skorzeny)

KG 200 (the Luftwaffe using captured planes, B-17s included)

Operation Pastorius (the German agents dropped off by U-boat on the American coast)

Panzerbrigade 150 (the German tanks dressed up as US vehicles during the battle of the bulge)

...and a lot more....

Why would this story take until 2016 to be as common knowledge as the above examples?? Because it's like the bark of the hound of the Baskervilles. Its absence is proof that the big scary doggie just isn't there...

Now then, anyone care to donate to my expedition to dig up crated Spitfires in Burma?

Re: Rudolf Hess May 1941
 

See site

http://www.stephen-stratford.co.uk/treachery.htm

It lists agents executed in WW2, nothing fits your description

But as with all conspiracy theories, negative evidence is usually not enough

Re: Rudolf Hess May 1941
 

Thanks Richard

Hi Nick - sarcasm uncalled for! If I knew the answer I wouldn't have asked, would I? OK - so now you tell me that it is BS. Fair enough!

I think you are just bitter because we thrashed your mob in the test series!

Cheers
Brian

Re: Rudolf Hess May 1941
 

I think there's more to it than that, Brian.

Re: Rudolf Hess May 1941
 

Hi guys

Why's everyone picking on me?

I only asked a question!

Cheers
Brian

Re: Rudolf Hess May 1941
 

Well Nick, if that's your justification, it must have escaped your notice that derision ("contemptuous ridicule or mockery") is insulting by definition. What exactly would have been so difficult about saying "Sorry Brian, this story is nonsense"?

This goes for everyone: there is absolutely no need or excuse for attacking somebody simply because they ask a question.

Re: Rudolf Hess May 1941
 

Brian,

Stephen asked a legitimate question which I do not think you have answered. Please state your source or I will lock this thread due to personal attacks.

Re: Rudolf Hess May 1941
 

John

I believe it was stated on a video documentary that I recently watched. But does it matter? I simply, out of curiosity and for need of further education, asked a plain and simple question that, although everyone else seems to know the answer to, I didn't!

However, if the Forum has reached such self-importance that one has to produce evidence/explanation for every question asked, then count me as a disappointed ex-Forumite.

Brian

Re: Rudolf Hess May 1941
 

Brian, having an idea of the source is often helpful in answering a question, simple as that. If your source turns out to be X, then another person might know that X got the story from Y.

Re: Rudolf Hess May 1941
 

Dear All,

Eighteen entries and nary a serious answer. Like Brian, I'm disappointed. Yes, knowing the source of Brian's information could be helpful, but by now demanding it is in poor taste, as he's certainly been spun in the wind far too long. John, your threat to close the forum on the least of pretexts is extremely out of place.

Rather, someone attempt to provide an answer to his question.

Five ultra Nazi officers and a KZ inmate gather in a room at Auschwitz to decide the final solution to the Jewish problem. Each officer goads on the next to a more outlandish solution, until they move all the way from displacing them to eastern Europe to gassing them there at Auschwitz. Do you think anyone is even going to listen to the Jew who has the most at stake?

As I said, someone actually answer Brian's question. He didn't ask to be dissected.

Regards,
Richard

Re: Rudolf Hess May 1941
 

Brian,

We've messaged off board so I guess I assumed more familiarity than what there obviously really is between us and as such, I took it if I said something that could be construed as negative, you'd handle it all right. I'm still a little stunned that typing the sound effects of somebody walking down a corridor and slamming the door behind them counts as an "attack"... But hey, my bad, won't happen again. In contrast to "other Nick" (the Super Moderator), I take derision as:

Act of treating with contempt, act of treating with disdain

Source: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/derision

...I can't find the words insulting or insult in either of those but since I obviously hurt your feelings, I apologize unreservedly in front of all these witnesses. I stand by the sentiment (see below), but regret the hurt I caused. SORRY.

And no, the situation can't be blamed on being bitter about cricket (my best GUESS as to what you were referring to). I totally own what I said because sport on television is for me, about the most boring thing on the planet. Your side won? Nice, happy for you. I guess I was busy re-arranging my sock drawer.... It's also why I have kept this post free of all references to whingeing bloody poms or other racist overtones that might remotely imply that I have any interest at all in televised sport.

If the situation requires any further clarification from my part: I consider myself to be a forum contributor who specializes in what really did happen or, on the basis of one side's records compared to another's, MAY have happened with regards to Luftwaffe victory claims. Any "what if's" or patent BS stories (...and it has to be said, your very own words implied that you yourself did not entirely believe it. Up to you to own that, by the way...) earn my derision as per the above definition, not Nick Beale's with which for reasons that should be clear, I respectfully but fundamentally slightly disagree with.

Once again,
Sorry.

Nick

Re: Rudolf Hess May 1941
 

OK, Nick, let's call a truce!

Just to reiterate, I did NOT know if the story was true (to me, it seemed feasible), that's why I asked the question! And apologies for not perceiving your humour!

I won't take it personally!

Cheers
Brian

Re: Rudolf Hess May 1941
 

Brian,

A reference to your question here: http://www.leninimports.com/rudolf_h...he_royals.html

Scroll down to "Several sources have claimed..."

Unfortunately no clarification of who or what those sources may have been other than an officer named McCowen.

Even if the attempt or executions have taken place, then I guess we'll never know.

Regards,

Leendert

Re: Rudolf Hess May 1941
 

Brian,

Now that we have a truce (hope you liked my assistance on the recent U-2/Po-2 threads that we both contributed to, by the way. Given in all good faith)

How feasible does this equation sound to you:

Foolish, or perhaps unscrupulous imagination + plot of the movie "the eagle has landed" + plus alcohol - winston churchill + Rudolf Hess = made up BS story that people should know better to believe in....

...Because that was what was going through my mind when I first responded.

...Just putting it out there. Again, in good faith this time round.

Re: Rudolf Hess May 1941
 

Nick,

This goes beyond the type of question like, why is the sky blue?

Stephen

Re: Rudolf Hess May 1941
 

Hi Nick

And I bet you don't believe in Father Christmas or fairies, either!

Leendert's reference (thanks Leendert) reveals:

"Several sources have claimed that Hess was the target of an assassination attempt while at Mytchett Place. According to a former army intelligence officer named John McCowen, the three would-be killers were German and arrived by parachute near Luton Hoo on the night of 28 May 1941. After being captured and interrogated, the trio revealed that they had expected to find Hess at the London Cage at Cockfosters, and to obtain help from Abwehr agents already in Britain. They were later executed without trial at the Tower of London. Predictably there is no record of any such agents being captured in 1941, or executed, and the facts seem highly unlikely."

Yes, Nick, thanks for your contribution to my Russian enquiry - hopefully you'll help further if possible.

Cheers
Brian, the whinging pom!

Re: Rudolf Hess May 1941
 

Brian, if I see you wandering around an Aussie beach with your trousers rolled up, a woollen waistcoat and a four-knotted hankie on your head I'll buy you a beer.

Stephen, I don't get what you're saying. I was speculating at the source of such a tall tale and remain convinced that this part of the quote "Predictably there is no record of any such agents being captured in 1941, or executed, and the facts seem highly unlikely"
...says it all. I think it's fiction, as per my last post and I am done discussing it. I have already ended up hurting the feelings of one nice person so I'd prefer to leave it where we've brought it.

Re: Rudolf Hess May 1941
 

No worries, Nick. It was on a note that I had but have since lost it. Though, enough has been revealed already in the posts that I will let a sleeping dog lie.

Re: Rudolf Hess May 1941
 

What may or may not have happened may never be known. I think that's fair. In some cases, actual, unbiased research does turn things up. I've found the internet can be a reasonable place but such reasonable places are few.

I still can't figure out the Fall of France, even though much has been written about it.




Ed

Re: Rudolf Hess May 1941
 

For both believers and non-believers alike, a far more detailed report of McCowen's is given in the book "Rudolf Hess. The Uninvited Envoy" by James Leasor.

Go to books.google.com and call up the title. Then type McCowen in the little search field on the left and if everything goes fine, p. 169-171 are displayed.

Here you can read what the initiial question of this thread is/was about and it is not meant as an opinion that the story is true or not.


Regards,

Leendert

Re: Rudolf Hess May 1941
 

Hi Nick

Next time I see a bleached-blonde dreadlocked, Hawaiian tee-shirted guy with a surf board walking past my house, I certainly won't buy him a beer - it might be you!! Or someone escaped from the local institution! Anyway, I live some 30 miles from the sea! But, be warned, we do have a young grandson living not far from you - a visit could be arranged!!

Let's leave it here - I've been taught my lesson - don't ask questions unless you know the answer first! OK?

Brian, the whinging pom

Re: Rudolf Hess May 1941
 

That's enough, now.