A nice (JU88?) part to identify
 

Good morning

what are your comments on this beautiful fairing ?

size is 82cm X 18 cm.

Thanks for your replies

GC

Re: A nice (JU88?) part to identify
 

I think its Ju 188! 088/5707 (A-4) was lost at sea in MTO, another reported amendment is incorrect. A-4 088/5707 was made before parts usually were marked hlr (ATG) but 5xxx (fuselage) line numbers were used on Ju 188 A-2/D-2´s. This is perhaps about 50 to 100 planes before end of ATG/SFW production. Need check this better tonight.

Re: A nice (JU88?) part to identify
 

hlc: Zieh und Stanwerk GmbH Schleusingen/Thuringen

Re: A nice (JU88?) part to identify
 

Hello

I think the code is "h l r"

Rene

Re: A nice (JU88?) part to identify
 

Think you are right Reiner

It should be then: ATG, Algemeine Transport Anlage GmbH Maschinenfabrik Leipzig W32

Re: A nice (JU88?) part to identify
 

It is from a Ju88...not a Ju188.

The werk number (5707) is only for the part itself, and is not the aircraft werk number.

This is a fuselage access panel.

Sadly, I do not have access to my parts manual...so I cannot tell you where it was located for the moment.

Mike

Re: A nice (JU88?) part to identify
 

You disagree? Fine. Study of all dataplates for Ju 88 series over several years leads me to not change my mind. Besides who said this was the a/c W.Nr. I certainly did not. On the contrary. Read better.
Besides checking June 1941 parts list of Ju 88 A-4 / D-1 finds no higher than 88.170 and that was for Ju 88 B-1 cockpit (and 88.190 was totally other special parts for A-6/A-8 ballon cutters).

-ed

Re: A nice (JU88?) part to identify
 

Already said that in reply #2. hlr was ATG
-Ed

Re: A nice (JU88?) part to identify
 

Ed,

Almost EVERY reply I see from you has some arrogant and egotistical attitude behind it.

It is certainly not called for, and is pretty immature....

Your statement:

"088/5707 (A-4) was lost at sea in MTO"... CLEARLY states that you are referencing "5707" as a MAIN werk number...of a LOST aircraft...in the MTO...

So what did I "misread"?

Rather than telling me I should "read better"....maybe you should be "clearer" in what you are typing, so you do not get your nickers in a twist?

Re: A nice (JU88?) part to identify
 

Yes you did. Only gave the rest of the info i had namely the complete name f the abbr. That you didnt.

But thank you for giving your knowledge on these matters. I for one appreciate your knowledge .

Regards

Re: A nice (JU88?) part to identify
 

Hi Guys,

I want to be sure that I understood correctly everything, so please correct me if I am wrong:

- it is from a JU188
- We don't know the A/C WNr.
- Because of the "hlr" marking, we know it was built by ATG (Algemeine Transport Anlage GmbH Maschinenfabrik Leipzig W32)

correct ?


Then, do you think there is a chance to :

- to identify the A/C WNr. ?
- to locate this panel on the A/C ?

Thanks for your help: as a French guy, I am not sure my English is as good as yours and I doubt I get every abbreviation :). Your efforts to clarify are very much appreciated.

GC

PS : I read 88 168, and not 88 188, do you agree with me ?

Re: A nice (JU88?) part to identify
 

I read 88.188-05 and base my reply on that

Re: A nice (JU88?) part to identify
 

Clearly not a plate from an aircraft lost at sea is it? I gave example of fate of ATG Ju 88 A-4 088 5707 (!) so most readers here could see that it does not fit (does it ?) and undoudedly many will recoginse the word but thereafter (as separator in argument against interpretating it as W.Nr. 5707 (which you <Mike> insist I am stating as W.Nr. of part - which I am not) but I prefer hold all my arrogace all to myself - and do not mind - if others express their attitude in such a way. If its my arrogance to have the Ju 88 A-4 parts list at all at hand, and for study, and NOT finding "panel" what you are referreng to as "Ju 88" part. If its 88.168-05 then closest number I find is 88.166 that was lower half of main fuselage in Ju 88 D-1´s, but having dash -05 refers to smaller part, which it is plainly visible on the photos. So what has you <Mike> brought new up on this part? Furthermore, lots of 88.xxx numers were carried on to Ju 188 and Ju 388. All drawing sheets I have on Ju 188 have numbers beginning with either 88.xxx or 188.xxx. but many have more suffuxes too.

Re: A nice (JU88?) part to identify
 

Have found photos were I think this access panel was, right behind the cockpit - on top of fuselage - lying sideways - in front of antenna mast.
Handbook drawings show this but I am searching fo better drawings or photos. Colour of part matches top camouflage, so likely from Bomber/Recce.

In Ju 188 E series manual, this panel appears in front of Spant 9.
%3

Re: A nice (JU88?) part to identify
 

more, seems shape and edges fit.

http://www.ipmsdeutschland.de/FirstL...S_Ju188_02.jpg

http://www.worldwarphotos.info/wp-co...8_wreckage.jpg

Re: A nice (JU88?) part to identify
 

Plate 5707 could have belonged to ATG made Ju 188 A-2 / D-2 fuselage (Line Number) 5707 but be in several ATG W.Nr. ranges (somewhere about 150505 or 230411 but not very exact) just speculatively deducted from available 57xx and 58xx series Line Numbers known from photos.

-Ed

Re: A nice (JU88?) part to identify
 

I am no Ju88 or Ju188 specialist, in my experiences with the Bf109 early models, I have found that removable access panels, even in some cases the very small circular screwed on type, the Werk Number of the aircraft was either via a data plate or painted on to the removable panel and also stamped into the panel. As you can imagine when these aircraft were needing repair, quick identification of parts was essential, after being stripped down. You can just imagine a handful of aircraft being patched up in a hanger and an aircraft mechanic has his parts on a bench at the back of a hanger and another guy takes over his shift and there are multiple jobs being done at the same time. Things can easily get confusing. So it makes logical sense. In addition, in some cases panels from one aircraft didn't always easily fit on another. Bearing in mind these were hand made and yes to drawings of course, but again being hand made, there can be very clear differences. Just recently I was comparing a part to a drawing and there was a clear mistake to its dimensions by 7mm would you believe, not a couple of mm. After all we are all human - I think :-)

So to add, looking at what you have on the data plate, in my opinion it is very likely the werk nr. Unless someone can show this to be the suffix drawing number of some kind?

Hope this helps a little.

Best Regards

Re: A nice (JU88?) part to identify
 

Quite correct. Few people know however Ju 88 production had considerable effort in early years in making parts interchangeable. Even on assembly in the beginning the parts numbers (Serie Nr.) got mixed. Even the "so called fixed W.Nr.s" were changed, in order to deliver correct W.Nr. on time, and planes were almost never delivered in nummerical order. (New W.Nr.s replacing rejected airframes)

Abowe (#16) is assuming part was used in cronological order, but as this Line Number was made quite late in 1944, it rater unlikely might have been salvaged (recycled) and fitted to other plane. We have no idea over its actual useage., so assume it stayed with same airframe thrughout.

But what were the ATG Line Numbers. http://www.wwiiaircraftphotos.com/LCBW12/Ju188_2f-s.jpg
This here shows Ju 188 A-3(LT) Search Radar equipped Torpedo Bomber W.Nr. 190339 (Line Number 5488 on tail end of fuselage) code 1H+KS of III/KG 26 (from Norway) surrendered at Copenhagen Kastrup, after 8 May 1945. The ATG Line numbers were not continious, indicating to me some (first) might have been updated from normal A-4 airframes (which ATG was still producing at that time) but appear near continious after 5201 to just past 5812. Combined ATG and Siebel output be about half of Ju 188 production (JFM 601, ATG 655*) but many were lost in works.

Re: A nice (JU88?) part to identify
 

Thanks for your precisions and information, guys.

I understand we face a JU188 part;

And do we know the fate of this aircraft ? (Wnr. 5707)

Cheers to all from Toulouse

GC

Re: A nice (JU88?) part to identify
 

We face Ju 188 (D-2), Line Number (NOT W.Nr. per se) 5707 - But you must also tell us where this comes from !

Re: A nice (JU88?) part to identify
 

What is , Ed, the german term for the "Line number" ???

It existed for every models ??

Rémi

Re: A nice (JU88?) part to identify
 

Hi Ed and thanks for clarification.

These pictures were mailed to me by a French man who said "he bought this fairing on ebay some 10 years ago".

I shall ask him to try to contact the seller to ask him the provenance of this part. Fingers crossed; Keep u posted.

GC

Re: A nice (JU88?) part to identify
 

Hi to all my friends,

The number is without doubt : 88.168-05 and not 88.188-05 !

Here it is a new picture

Sincerly

Nicolas

Re: A nice (JU88?) part to identify
 

Dear friends,

I've bought this part on ebay 10 years ago...I can't find anymore
the seller !

Sorry

regards

Re: A nice (JU88?) part to identify
 

The Line Number is explained here.
http://www.abcdlist.nl/mainbc.html
http://www.abcdlist.nl/mainbc.html

A serial that is not a Manufacturer Serial Number.

(a Factory Production Line Number that is not a W.Nr.)
(Basically a Lfd.Nr. but can start not only at 1)
(In fact a W.Nr. that is not a W.Nr.)

Complex? No really very simply.

-Ed

Re: A nice (JU88?) part to identify
 

No problem.

Re: A nice (JU88?) part to identify
 

Thks Ed, had to do with Order number from RLM, oder....


Rémi

Re: A nice (JU88?) part to identify
 

No, maybe, 5xxx range was used by ATG for several types. Hs 126, He 111, Ju 88, Ju 188 (here!) but the Ju 188´s also had six digit Secret Code W.Nr.s.