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-   -   What German bombers were used against Hinckley, Leicestershire (http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=44425)

GrahamUK33 6th March 2016 19:28

What German bombers were used against Hinckley, Leicestershire
 
I wonder if you could help me find out what type of German Bombers were used to bomb Hinckley in Leicestershire on the night of 16th May 1941 and early hours of 17th May 1941.

The research I have done so far has unearthed that a large German formation was heading towards Birmingham, but some of the bombers had a navigation issue which led them to bomb Nuneaton, I am presuming that Hinckley was bombed as a result of just getting rid of some bombs (any way of confirming this?) that had not been used as the bombs landed on housing.

I am guessing that the bombers assigned to ‘Luftflotte 3’ would have flown from The Netherlands, as Belgium and Northern France seem to me too far away to bomb Birmingham.

The questions I have are:
  • What bombers were used?
  • What squadron would they be from?
  • Where did they fly from on 16th May 1941?, the time would be great?
  • How many bombers would have been on this raid?
  • What flight path would they have used to fly to Birmingham? Some of the bombers got the navigation wrong and ended up bombing Nuneaton.
  • Would there have been any fighters (bf109, bf110) escorting them and how far would they escort them to?
  • Is it common practice to get rid of any remaining bombs? And why would they have any spare bombs.
Sorry about all the questions, I suppose if the flights were logged it would answer some of the questions.

Bombphoon 7th March 2016 15:11

Re: What German bombers were used against Hinckley, Leicestershire
 
Hi Graham,

Keep a look out for my book 'Beneath Hitler's Highway: Leicestershire Versus the Luftwaffe, 1939-1945' published by Halsgrove books this summer. It covers in great detail this particular raid, plus previously unpublished photos and records regarding the fall-out, inquiry and post-raid conclusions.

Regards,

Austin J. Ruddy

Chris Goss 7th March 2016 15:59

Re: What German bombers were used against Hinckley, Leicestershire
 
I have a copy of the raid report from the Luftwaffe side so can say for Luftflotte 3, KGr 100 (He 111, Vannes), II/KG 55 (He 111, Chartres), III/KG 55 (He 111, Villacoublay, Stab/KG 55 (He 111, Villacoublay), KG 1 (Ju 88, Rosieres & Amy), KG 76 (Ju 88 Creil, Beaumont, Cormeilles), KG 26 (He 111 Le Bourget). No escort as it was night

GrahamUK33 7th March 2016 19:51

Re: What German bombers were used against Hinckley, Leicestershire
 
Many thanks, I will keep an eye out for the book. I am after the information this week so that I can upload a webpage and finish off the details to the bombing of Hinckley.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bombphoon (Post 215361)
Hi Graham,

Keep a look out for my book 'Beneath Hitler's Highway: Leicestershire Versus the Luftwaffe, 1939-1945' published by Halsgrove books this summer. It covers in great detail this particular raid, plus previously unpublished photos and records regarding the fall-out, inquiry and post-raid conclusions.

Regards,

Austin J. Ruddy


GrahamUK33 7th March 2016 19:53

Re: What German bombers were used against Hinckley, Leicestershire
 
This looks like a massive raid that night, does the report give any details of the time they took off and returned? Any ideas of the amount of aircraft that took off and returned?

I have checked out where the airfields were and found they were all in France as following:
• Roye-Amy – France, North East
• Beaumont-le-Roger – France, North
• Chartres – France, nr Paris
• Cormeilles – France, nr Paris
• Creil – France, nr Paris
• Le Bourget – France, nr Paris
• Rosieres – France, South
• Vannes – France, North
• Villacoublay – France, nr Paris

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Goss (Post 215366)
I have a copy of the raid report from the Luftwaffe side so can say for Luftflotte 3, KGr 100 (He 111, Vannes), II/KG 55 (He 111, Chartres), III/KG 55 (He 111, Villacoublay, Stab/KG 55 (He 111, Villacoublay), KG 1 (Ju 88, Rosieres & Amy), KG 76 (Ju 88 Creil, Beaumont, Cormeilles), KG 26 (He 111 Le Bourget). No escort as it was night


Chris Goss 8th March 2016 00:02

Re: What German bombers were used against Hinckley, Leicestershire
 
The report doesn't say take off & landing just attack times. It also has ac numbers. I do not have details of any other Luftflotte involvement. PM me if I can help more

GrahamUK33 8th March 2016 00:25

Re: What German bombers were used against Hinckley, Leicestershire
 
I don't have the option to PM you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Goss (Post 215396)
The report doesn't say take off & landing just attack times. It also has ac numbers. I do not have details of any other Luftflotte involvement. PM me if I can help more


GrahamUK33 8th March 2016 00:31

Re: What German bombers were used against Hinckley, Leicestershire
 
What was the time of attack as that would be very helpful. What are the AC Numbers?

These post are taking quite a while to appear on this forum!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Goss (Post 215396)
The report doesn't say take off & landing just attack times. It also has ac numbers. I do not have details of any other Luftflotte involvement. PM me if I can help more


Nick Beale 8th March 2016 09:36

Re: What German bombers were used against Hinckley, Leicestershire
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GrahamUK33 (Post 215398)
These post are taking quite a while to appear on this forum!

Because your first five posts require approval by a moderator before they appear. It's how we stop the forum filling up with spam messages.

Graham Boak 8th March 2016 10:40

Re: What German bombers were used against Hinckley, Leicestershire
 
Is that also why he can't PM?

Nick Beale 8th March 2016 10:47

Re: What German bombers were used against Hinckley, Leicestershire
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham Boak (Post 215417)
Is that also why he can't PM?

No idea - if there's a moderator's operating manual, I've never seen it - but since he's now passed the magic five approvals there shouldn't be a problem.

Chris Goss 8th March 2016 11:22

Re: What German bombers were used against Hinckley, Leicestershire
 
Earliest aircraft over the target was 0015 hrs; latest 0320 hrs. As to numbers I will have to get the document, open it up, find the date and count the aircraft numbers! BTW Ac=aircraft

Chris Goss 8th March 2016 16:32

Re: What German bombers were used against Hinckley, Leicestershire
 
I do have the TO times for the 75 aircraft tasked. Four aircraft were lost two of which came down on land-one came down at Plymtree at 0012 hrs on the way to the target, another at Worthing at 0002 hrs on the way in

GrahamUK33 8th March 2016 19:21

Re: What German bombers were used against Hinckley, Leicestershire
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Goss (Post 215440)
I do have the TO times for the 75 aircraft tasked. Four aircraft were lost two of which came down on land-one came down at Plymtree at 0012 hrs on the way to the target, another at Worthing at 0002 hrs on the way in

Thank you very much for this, the aircraft numbers/amount would be great, it does sound like they were all bound for Birmingham but some had a navigation issue and some of the formations ended mistaking Nuneaton for Birmingham.

Do you think they would have taken different flight paths to Birmingham or a direct route form the airfield that they took of from. It am trying to picture what group of JU88s/HE111 would have bombed Hinckley.

Chris Goss 9th March 2016 08:49

Re: What German bombers were used against Hinckley, Leicestershire
 
I gave you the aircraft numbers-75. Maybe the Knickebein beams used for target were slightly off-weather could have been a factor. It looks as if there were a number of routes in to the target hence the losses at Worthing & Plymtree. Targets were within Birmingham no mention of anywhere else.

GrahamUK33 9th March 2016 20:35

Re: What German bombers were used against Hinckley, Leicestershire
 
75 aircraft don’t seem to be very many considering they have come from 9 different airfields across France. Would this have been normal for May 1941?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Goss (Post 215486)
I gave you the aircraft numbers-75. Maybe the Knickebein beams used for target were slightly off-weather could have been a factor. It looks as if there were a number of routes in to the target hence the losses at Worthing & Plymtree. Targets were within Birmingham no mention of anywhere else.


Chris Goss 9th March 2016 23:56

Re: What German bombers were used against Hinckley, Leicestershire
 
This is what the Luftwaffe reported the day after the operation. So the answer is yes

Andrew Arthy 10th March 2016 00:11

Re: What German bombers were used against Hinckley, Leicestershire
 
Hi Graham,

From Luftwaffe Lagebericht Nr. 616:

From 00:45 to 03:57 111 bombers attacked industrial targets in Birmingham from altitudes between 1,900 and 6,500 metres, dropping the following bomb types: 62 SC 1000, 20 SC 500, 158 SC 250, 24 SD 250, 14 Flambo 250, 2 LZZ 250, 92 SC 50, 134 SD 50 and 27 Bomben B, and also 2,076 Brandbomben.

Cheers,
Andrew A.
Air War Publications - www.airwarpublications.com/earticles

Chris Goss 10th March 2016 07:40

Re: What German bombers were used against Hinckley, Leicestershire
 
What Andrew is quoting obviously includes Luftflotte 2; my report refers just to Luftflotte 3

GrahamUK33 11th March 2016 00:02

Re: What German bombers were used against Hinckley, Leicestershire
 
Thanks guys,

Where would the bombers from Luftflotte 2 have flown from, would there have been any losses?

Where these bomber have been HE111 and JU88?

Chris Goss 11th March 2016 11:12

Re: What German bombers were used against Hinckley, Leicestershire
 
The precise unit details for Luftflotte 2 are not known therefore bases cannot be stated. They operated Ju 88, He 111 and Do 17 bombers. A quick look at losses (and I would have to check further which takes time) was 3 Ju 88s of which one came down on land and one He 111 (which came down on land)

GrahamUK33 13th March 2016 02:20

Re: What German bombers were used against Hinckley, Leicestershire
 
Many thanks for your help guys.


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