8/ZG26, 09.07.1940.
 

On 9th July 1940, 8/ZG26 lost one Bf110c and one damaged. The reports are:

8/ZG26.
Messerschmitt Bf110C ( ). Sortie to the south coast of England, shot down by RAF Hurricanes and crashed in the sea off Margate, Kent, 4.00pm. Fw. Hans Langbein (F) and Obgefr. Walter Franzke (Bf) both missing. Aircraft lost.

Messerschmitt Bf110 ( ). Sortie to England. Damaged by RAF fighter and returned to base. Pilot unhurt, 1 crewman (Bf) baled-out and missing. Aircraft 50% damaged.

Anyone know the identity of the Wireless Operator who baled-out?

Many thanks, Steve

Re: 8/ZG26, 09.07.1940.
 

No input for 9 July 1940. The closest match: 10/07/1940, Bf 110 C-2, 3U+GS, 8./ZG 26
Pilot: Ofw. Willi Meyer
Bordfunker: Gefr. Willi Rohde +

Source: Nigel Parker, Luftwaffe Crash Archive, Vol.1, page 64

Re: 8/ZG26, 09.07.1940.
 

Thanks for your reply Sidney.
On the 10th July 1940 III/ZG26 lost 3 Bf110C and 1 damaged:

III/ZG26.
Messerschmitt Bf110C ( ). Sortie to England, hit by RAF fighters and returned to base. Crew unhurt. Aircraft 50% damaged.

8/ZG26.
Messerschmitt Bf110C ( ). Escort sortie to England for KG2, shot down by RAF fighters and crashed in the Channel off Folkestone, Kent. Oblt. Siegfried Kuhrke (F) killed, Uffz. Heinz Brinkmann (Bf) missing. Aircraft lost.

Messerschmitt Bf110C ( ). Escort sortie to England for KG2, shot down by RAF fighters and crashed in the Channel off Folkestone, Kent. Oblt. Leo Siegmund (F) and Obgefr. Günther Linke (Bf) both missing. Aircraft lost.

Messerschmitt Bf110C ( ). Escort sortie to England for KG2, shot down by RAF fighters and crashed in the Channel 3 miles off Folkestone, Kent. Gefr. Willi Rohde (Bf) missing, Oberfw. Willi Meyer (F) captured. Aircraft 3U+GS lost.

Its the second Bf110C on the 9th July 1940 that I need the name for.

Re: 8/ZG26, 09.07.1940.
 

You are welcome. Perhaps the quoted reference just do not cover all the Luftwaffe aircraft crashed in the Channel.

Re: 8/ZG26, 09.07.1940.
 

The book Zerstörer makes no mention of a second Bf 110 on 9 July 40 but does mention the loss of Brinkmann on 10 July 1940. Mason doesn't help with listing 4 aircraft on 9 July when Zerstörer states all but Langbein were lost on 10 July 40

Re: 8/ZG26, 09.07.1940.
 

srob48,
It might be useful if you quote your source(s) when you post such as you have done in your first post in this thread. If you do that, then the knowledgeable on here may be able to provide better replies for you.

Re: 8/ZG26, 09.07.1940.
 

No, it isn't the closest match on 10th July. What you quote above is a 100% loss. There was a 50% damaged Bf 110 that returned to base on the same day...

Re: 8/ZG26, 09.07.1940.
 

To John and everyone else that mentions quoting sources.
All my information comes from the Luftwaffe Loss Records kept on microfilm at the Imperial War Museum in London. Wast in Berlin, and the VDK. All official sources. I do not tend to use books as most contain errors. If you wish me to repeat this message on every new thread I will, but it will get a bit boring.
Kind regards, Steve Roberts

Re: 8/ZG26, 09.07.1940.
 

Steve.

There are now books out there (i.e Zerstörer, which John Vasco co-wrote, and Jochen Prien's series of books) which are as accurate as you are going to get and which are based on those sources you quote (plus more you don't quote)

Re: 8/ZG26, 09.07.1940.
 

Yes, you are perfectly right about that. I was referring to the complete loss, while the original query was related to the 50% damaged aircraft.

Re: 8/ZG26, 09.07.1940.
 

With regard to the Luftwaffe Loss records at the IWM, you need to always approach these with a certain amount of caution.

Let me give you a couple of examples:
1. Those records show Ebner & Zwick of 2./Erpr. Gr. 210 as being shot down in S9+DU on 27/9/40. The correct code was S9+DK, which information I received from Ken Wakefield initially decades ago from a document he copied to me.
2. Check out the spelling of the names of the crew show down on 5/10/40 in S9+GH, W. Nr. 3383 in the IWM microfilm records. You will not find the correct spelling of Duensing & Krappatsch.

So I would respectfully suggest that you do not dismiss information in books, as oftentimes that information is far more up-to-date and correct...

THAT is why I suggested you quote your sources for the specific information you request in threads on here. There are many on here who have accessed over the decades the records you mention, and garnered a hell of a lot more information from private sources to supplement those official records. If it's 'boring' for you to quote your sources, then you may find that that will result in less assistance than you may otherwise receive...

Re: 8/ZG26, 09.07.1940.
 

To reinforce what others have said, sometimes books are more reliable because authors have done more work, taking into account the limitations of the source material rather than taking things at face value. Wartime sources are invaluable, not infallible. The Luftwaffe was hopeless at spelling personal names and non-German place names, for a start. Take Ofw. Kuno Dollenmayer/Dollenmeyer/Dollenmaier — all spellings in primary sources, so how do you decide which is right? Or Oblt. Theodor Spies/Spiess of 5.(F)/123 … Or (from the IWM records) "Grumone" in Italy — on maps it's Cremona, so do you believe the German records?

Re: 8/ZG26, 09.07.1940.
 

Hi John, thank you for the information. As to spelling names, I always spell the names as they are written on the graves in stone. I guess there will be cases where this is wrong, but I hope the family may have corrected any miss-spelling of their sons. I'm sure I had the pleasure of meeting you once at the IMW while you were gathering information for your book "Zestörer". I will not be offended if you do not remember me :)
I should also add, I know I have only been on this site for less than one year, but I have been researching Luftwaffe Losses for 41 years, so I would like to think I know a little bit about this subject. I do appreciate all the help from everybody here, I find this site the best site to answer my many questions and to get the facts right. I never claim my facts are 100% correct or error free, I believe no one knows it all (Well, with the exception of Peter Cornwell, that's a compliment Peter!), but I am glad of the 'Experten' who know a lot more than me. Lets hope this allows you all to understand me better, and accept me into your ranks. Kind regards, Steve Roberts.

Re: 8/ZG26, 09.07.1940.
 

perhaps of intrest https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.a.../document/9878

Re: 8/ZG26, 09.07.1940.
 

There has been a transcription error, so the code is shown as 59+DK, rather then S9+DK.
I have informed them.